To all you Xw-20 doubters out there…

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So you should never make the mistake of making sae20 oils bad or saying about the ever-increasing wear. I think the future will provide further evidence by seeing high mileage.
The wear curve vs. HT/HS has been posted here many times. It shows that no oil prevents all wear, but the curve shows an inflection at about 2.6. However, this is not representative of all operating conditions for all engines. High miles is not necessarily indicative of low wear without further inspection.

Some people like to present the facts as something else but I think most on here see through it. They have a motivation for doing so that is generally not technical nor is it based on those facts.
 
Yes for most engines an oil with an HT/HS of 2.6 is adequate to prevent excessive wear under most circumstances. That's what it is now and has been for a long time as evidenced by the back-specifying a 20-grade oil in older engines.
How many people wear out a properly maintained engine?
 
@kschachn
You nag and sting around every proof here. Where are the many engine damages with sae20 and thinner? Where are all the predictions about faster wear-wear engines they made? Here we have once again a great example that their theory is just theory, nothing more and nothing less. They constantly try to enforce something that is not reflected in practice. And yet they come along over and over again with their "wrong" view. Sometimes you should allow new views and facts instead of always insisting on your own opinion.
 
@kschachn
You nag and sting around every proof here. Where are the many engine damages with sae20 and thinner? Where are all the predictions about faster wear-wear engines they made? Here we have once again a great example that their theory is just theory, nothing more and nothing less. They constantly try to enforce something that is not reflected in practice. And yet they come along over and over again with their "wrong" view. Sometimes you should allow new views and facts instead of always insisting on your own opinion.
Yes this is a typical response.
 
@kschachn
You nag and sting around every proof here. Where are the many engine damages with sae20 and thinner? Where are all the predictions about faster wear-wear engines they made? Here we have once again a great example that their theory is just theory, nothing more and nothing less. They constantly try to enforce something that is not reflected in practice. And yet they come along over and over again with their "wrong" view. Sometimes you should allow new views and facts instead of always insisting on your own opinion.
He often backs his "own opinion" with facts. I'd recommend searching the archives.
 
So ist es. Ein praktischer Fakt den sie nicht weg diskutieren können.
Hier haben wir ein Praxis Beispiel, und es gibt etliche weitere die das belegen. Die Angstmacherei wegen dünneren Ölen ist völlig unbegründet.
 
The examples of high mileage automobiles running 0W-20 are out there. We don’t need to wait.
But these must also be read by sae20 refusers, so they can finally deviate from their opinion and take a closer look at the practice 😎
 
But these must also be read by sae20 refusers, so they can finally deviate from their opinion and take a closer look at the practice 😎


As one example a friend of mine has a Honda CRV with the 1.5 turbo that is dreaded here. She drives a lot so the mileage piles on. I’m guessing she has at least 160,000 miles on it now running 0w-20. She gets the oil changed when the monitor tells her. The vehicle runs just fine.
 
My statement stands and is supported by facts that an oil with an HT/HS of 2.6 is adequate in most engines to prevent excessive wear under most circumstances. Hyperventilating statements to the contrary do not change that fact nor do they contribute to they technical discussion in any way. They only serve to further reinforce that point.

Neither do statements in German.
 
Or there really isn't enough 5W-30 data to show it would have done a better job. Sure would like to see what the real data would show us but today numbers rarely show us the real science!
There is a lot of this data, otherwise the expense and complexity of running the Sequence IVA tests would be unneeded as well as some manufacturer approval tests.
 
Anyone who doesn't believe 20 grade oils will do the job, at this point, is not paying attention.
That's exactly the point, if they can "do the job", IE, as @kschachn noted, prevent excessive wear, then for the vast, vast majority of users, that's all that matters.

If we have two low wear environments, but one is slightly higher than the other; that is, it's an observable phenomenon, but will have little to no effect on the intended service life of the equipment, despite this being acknowledged and verified, then does it matter?

For Joe Average, ultimately, the answer is almost assuredly no.

That does NOT mean that wear couldn't be lower using a different lube, different viscosity, different additive chemistry...etc. The point is that in most instances, that doesn't matter.
 
@kschachn
You nag and sting around every proof here. Where are the many engine damages with sae20 and thinner? Where are all the predictions about faster wear-wear engines they made? Here we have once again a great example that their theory is just theory, nothing more and nothing less. They constantly try to enforce something that is not reflected in practice. And yet they come along over and over again with their "wrong" view. Sometimes you should allow new views and facts instead of always insisting on your own opinion.
Did he actually say that or did he say xW-20 was adequate to protect against excessive wear in most situations and that an xW-30 or thicker would further protect against wear?

He can be rough around the edges with his delivery, but you would be hard pressed to dispute his statements as they are very much grounded in fact.
 
That does NOT mean that wear couldn't be lower using a different lube, different viscosity, different additive chemistry...etc. The point is that in most instances, that doesn't matter.
Exactly. In the not so distant past xw-20 grade oils were coined as to provide "adequate protection," I haven't been keeping up with the current verbiage it may still be used. If "adequate protection" makes a person happy then by all means they should go for it. I don't like words like adequate, my homework lead me to believe there are better viscosity choices for my fleet, two of which call for 5W20 grade oils. I passed and went with XW-30. ;)
 
There is a lot of this data, otherwise the expense and complexity of running the Sequence IVA tests would be unneeded as well as some manufacturer approval tests.
Well I'm sure glad to hear that. But for those of us that missed it post a URL that shows that along with the actual engine life one can expect with the 20 weight vs the 30 weight!
 
Well I'm sure glad to hear that. But for those of us that missed it post a URL that shows that along with the actual engine life one can expect with the 20 weight vs the 30 weight!
You've been here almost as long as I have, I'm quite certain you've seen the significant volume of data on this that @Shannow has posted in the past.

On the latter bit I hope you are being intentionally obtuse because it should be quite obvious that there are myriad factors that affect the service life of a piece of equipment and will likely ultimately play a far bigger role in its eventual retirement than oil grade.
 
You've been here almost as long as I have, I'm quite certain you've seen the significant volume of data on this that @Shannow has posted in the past.

On the latter bit I hope you are being intentionally obtuse because it should be quite obvious that there are myriad factors that affect the service life of a piece of equipment and will likely ultimately play a far bigger role in its eventual retirement than oil grade.


Some of that information should be posted as a sticky or be easily accessible here. As often as this question keeps being discussed it would make a great reference point.

There are way too many variables to make any conclusions being discussed here in this thread.
 
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