The $10,000 question

[mozart]

Thanks everyone for the insightful answers

I've weighed the opinions from here and elsewhere. All have merit.

I will (when finding a good price at Walmart) be using Synthetic oil on my vehicles.

My motivations are
1) The engine will be cleaner
2) It will help with stop and go traffic conditions
3) The starts will theoretically cause less wear
4) I will get that "I put the best in my car" feeling

Honestly, #4 means a lot to me. I love the feeling of working on my cars and keeping them in working order for a lot less than the dealer can.

Anyone know if the Toyota Rav4 V6 (2007) is the same "sludge prone" engine as that V6 Camry?

If I can't find PP for a good price, what else is recommended?

Thanks again!

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Mark888,
What oil did you use in your Camry?

Mobil 1 5W-30.

One thing I forgot to add: At no point during the 11 years I owned the Camry did the dipstick go below F that I could tell, and at no time did I everadd oil in-between changes. OCI was 6-7K miles.

 

[Steve S]

1) you engine will be clean enough to drive the car to the junk yard when the rest of the car is ready to go there.
2)How will syn help on stop and go driving?
3)How will the starts with syn theoretically cause less wear? We are talking California and modern day 5w-20 or 30 oils
4)Syn might not really be the best for your intended use. Your requirements and objectives of the use of syn oil may not make syn your best choice.
5) use Amsoil for long interval oil changes that is what it is made for. I do not use or sell it .Go for the gusto!

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: mozart
Anyone know if the Toyota Rav4 V6 (2007) is the same "sludge prone" engine as that V6 Camry?

I am fairly sure Toyota made some improvements to the V6 engine by then to help address the sludge issue. However, Toyota likes to push the envelope with regard low emissions, more horsepower, and better fuel economy, and that puts a premium on making sure you have frequent oil changes, or use a very high quality oil.

 

[mozart]

Originally Posted By: Steve S

4)Syn might not really be the best for your intended use. Your requirements and objectives of the use of syn oil may not make syn your best choice.


Care to enlighten me on what might be the best?

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: mozart
Originally Posted By: Steve S

4)Syn might not really be the best for your intended use. Your requirements and objectives of the use of syn oil may not make syn your best choice.


Care to enlighten me on what might be the best?

Steve S is a die-hard anti-synthetic person. His comments do not really have anything to do with your application.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: mozart
Anyone know if the Toyota Rav4 V6 (2007) is the same "sludge prone" engine as that V6 Camry?

I am fairly sure Toyota made some improvements to the V6 engine by then to help address the sludge issue. However, Toyota likes to push the envelope with regard low emissions, more horsepower, and better fuel economy, and that puts a premium on making sure you have frequent oil changes, or use a very high quality oil.

The 2GR-FE is a completely different engine than the 1MZ-FE. The 2GR-FE engine has a 6.5 quart sump.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Steve S

2)How will syn help on stop and go driving?
3)How will the starts with syn theoretically cause less wear? We are talking California and modern day 5w-20 or 30 oils
4)Syn might not really be the best for your intended use. Your requirements and objectives of the use of syn oil may not make syn your best choice.


2 - stop and go driving is hard on the engine just as it is the rest of the vehicle. Well, the "GO" part anyway. You are accelerating constantly which means higher RPM use. It isn't like you are on the highway in CC at a steady 1500 RPM's. You are hitting 2500-3500 RPM's( depends on how aggressive you are with your right foot )on a regular basis time and again as the engine shifts through the gears. Synthetic oil provides improved protection against wear. Also, CA stop & go means a lot of sitting at idle in hot temps in traffic for extended periods of time. Synthetic oil performs there better than conventional oil as well.

3 - synthetic oil leaves a film on metal parts whereas conventional oil drains off in time. Most engine wear occurs at intial startup before the oil flows and reaches the parts. With that film left by synthetic it reduces cold start wear. There is more to cold start wear protection than just flow in cold temps.

4 - you don't think synthetic is right for anyone. Admit it.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: scudpilot
Where is rubber city?


Cmon...think hard....where did Harvey Firestone start his company along with the Seiberlings and others....like Goodyear

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: mozart
Anyone know if the Toyota Rav4 V6 (2007) is the same "sludge prone" engine as that V6 Camry?

I am fairly sure Toyota made some improvements to the V6 engine by then to help address the sludge issue. However, Toyota likes to push the envelope with regard low emissions, more horsepower, and better fuel economy, and that puts a premium on making sure you have frequent oil changes, or use a very high quality oil.


I have 3 new Toyotas and the dealers really emphasize the importance of a 5000 OCI as maximum based on their experience.
Until recently, they wanted 3750 as the OCI number.

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: PT1
I have 3 new Toyotas and the dealers really emphasize the importance of a 5000 OCI as maximum based on their experience.
Until recently, they wanted 3750 as the OCI number.

My 1998 V6 had a OCI of 7500 miles specified by Toyota. That changed for newer V6 engines after all the sludge problems. But 7500 miles would be fine with a full synthetic if the owners manual allowed it.

I am sure Toyota (and others) have thought about specifying synthetic oil for their engines, but they know it will hurt them in terms of "apparent" cost to do maintenance on the cars relative to competitors. On more expensive cars that is not as much of a problem, but the competition relating to initial vehicle price, and cost of ownership costs, is very fierce on cars costing $18K - $25K.

 

[Bill in Utah]

No Toyota is not going to call for something that is not NEEDED.

Same for Honda. And both of their engines go long and far with API rated oil.

If someone can run a "common" oil for 5k and get 300k out of a motor, who needs anything else.

Over 90% of NA cars are using Conventional. In the world it is MUCH higher.

It's just amazing that people get so caught up with things that don't do anything in the end and are willing to throw $$ out the window.

Hey, to each their own.

 

[Riptide]

I have a 90 honda civic that has had castrol 5w30 dino oil in it for almost 100,000 miles now. I am the 2nd owner. The car has 142K on it and does not drip or burn a drop of oil. I put about 6000 miles a year on that car most of which is severe usage with short trips and multiple starts. Sometimes in the winter. Oil is changed every 6 months or less even if I haven't hit 3000 miles on the fill. Considering how well it has worked I am going to keep up with it and not convert to synthetic or mess with success so to speak.

My toy car is a 2006 mustang gt. It gets 6000 miles a year on it as well. Most of it in good weather and 20-30 mile trips each time it's driven. Very little justification for a synthetic. However, it's my toy so I pamper it. I use PP 5w20 and change every six months. I am going to change it next month and it will have barely 2400 miles on the fill. Is it a waste? Maybe it is. I don't know. I guess I don't really care.

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
No Toyota is not going to call for something that is not NEEDED.

Same for Honda. And both of their engines go long and far with API rated oil.

Well, not exactly. Toyota lowered the OCI from 7500 to 5000 miles on the V6 for the very reason that conventional oil was not holding very well in many situations (at least before the engine was fixed). They probably would have preferred to tell everyone to use a synthetic and keep it a 7500 miles, but that is not practical in that market.

Insofar as "throwing money out the window," the small extra cost of synthetics is not a serious consideration for many people, especially if OCI can be extended moderately. Personally, I am quite happy that you spread your gospel about conventional oil, because prices of synthetics would skyrocket if everyone started to use them.

 

[Bill in Utah]

No the reason why Toyota lowered their OCI was because people were not FOLLOWING the severe schedule of 3,750 over the 7,500 miles when they should have been.

Since the oils have gotten better and someone who was operating a Toyota in severe service was going twice as long as they should have they went ahead and kept the OCI SIMPLE to 5k or 6 months NO MATTER WHAT.

That is the REAL reason. There are plenty of owners who don't follow the manual for their OCI. A lot of them were your sludge folks. (and Toyota has found some of them who SHOULD have been changing their oil @ 3750 miles went OVER the 7,500 miles)

Quote:
Personally, I am quite happy that you spread your gospel about conventional oil, because prices of synthetics would skyrocket if everyone started to use them.


Must be the new math...

 

[PT1]

Well I use nothng but synthetics and haven't paid over $3/quart yet. So the demand is obviously not there yet or there wouldn't be all these BoGo & closeout sales.

 

[mozart]

Thanks everyone

Wallmart didn't have PP 5W30
So I went with QuakerState Horse Power

Hope I made a good choice
It was an economical one - $18 for 5quarts!!!

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: mozart
Thanks everyone

Wallmart didn't have PP 5W30
So I went with QuakerState Horse Power

Hope I made a good choice
It was an economical one - $18 for 5quarts!!!


It's really hard to buy a bad oil these days. You made a good choice

 

[mozart]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: mozart
Thanks everyone

Wallmart didn't have PP 5W30
So I went with QuakerState Horse Power

Hope I made a good choice
It was an economical one - $18 for 5quarts!!!


It's really hard to buy a bad oil these days. You made a good choice

Thanks. I just found the $10 mail in rebate. OMG $8 for 5 quarts of quality synthetic oil! At that price I don't know how anyone can say synthetics are a waste for 5K OCIs... though I'm sure someone will

 

[HTSS_TR]

It's not how much you pay for syn oil, it's a waste if you don't utilize full potential of the product, 5k syn oil is a waste in most cars.