The $10,000 question

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Originally Posted By: mozart

Thanks. I just found the $10 mail in rebate. OMG $8 for 5 quarts of quality synthetic oil! At that price I don't know how anyone can say synthetics are a waste for 5K OCIs... though I'm sure someone will
wink.gif



Okay, I will. What's the point? How can you do better than zero wear? If I do a UOA and the wear levels come below the noise threshold on dino SM then how is spending the extra for syn going to improve on that? If you don't call on the syn to do the extra things is capable of - turbo cooling, long intervals, extreme cold - then you aren't asking it to do anything dino couldn't do.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
It's not how much you pay for syn oil, it's a waste if you don't utilize full potential of the product, 5k syn oil is a waste in most cars.


That's one way to look at it. I consider paying more than necessary for a given product a waste of money. I like to utilize the full potential of my wallet :)
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Considering how much cleaning up of the engine goes on when switching from conventional to synthetic oil, it's clear to me that conventional is not quite as clean running as some folks think.


I completely agree with you on this. Pennzoil conventional is considered by many to be one of the best conventional oils, but if you compare the calcium level between the yellow bottle and the platinum, the Platinum is usually twice as much. That's going to make a significant difference in cleaning ability.

My moms car had been run on Quaker State synthetic blend for 85,000 miles, changed at the dealer every 3,000 miles. When I took over the maintenance on the car, I used Valvoline Synpower on the first oil change. Within 1,000 miles the oil was darker than it had ever been at a full 3,000 mile interval. The Synpower in that short time had removed some of the visible varnish inside the oil filler that had been there for tens of thousands of miles.
 
Quote:
If someone can run a "common" oil for 5k and get 300k out of a motor, who needs anything else.


For someone doing "common" mileage, it would take a good chunk of their productive life to do that, Bill. You can have a child born and have them leave the house before ever reaching 300k on multiple vehicles.


Hardly a template for most people.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Considering how much cleaning up of the engine goes on when switching from conventional to synthetic oil, it's clear to me that conventional is not quite as clean running as some folks think.


I completely agree with you on this. Pennzoil conventional is considered by many to be one of the best conventional oils, but if you compare the calcium level between the yellow bottle and the platinum, the Platinum is usually twice as much. That's going to make a significant difference in cleaning ability.

My moms car had been run on Quaker State synthetic blend for 85,000 miles, changed at the dealer every 3,000 miles. When I took over the maintenance on the car, I used Valvoline Synpower on the first oil change. Within 1,000 miles the oil was darker than it had ever been at a full 3,000 mile interval. The Synpower in that short time had removed some of the visible varnish inside the oil filler that had been there for tens of thousands of miles.


So basically you are implying the Valvoline was superior to the Quaker State synthetic oil in terms of cleanliness. I don't disagree, I just have never heard this before.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
If someone can run a "common" oil for 5k and get 300k out of a motor, who needs anything else.


For someone doing "common" mileage, it would take a good chunk of their productive life to do that, Bill. You can have a child born and have them leave the house before ever reaching 300k on multiple vehicles.


Hardly a template for most people.
300k in 18 years is only 16k per year.

Not hard to do at all. Since most people are keeping their cars longer (and buying them with miles already on them) 200k to 300k is happening more and more.

Also, I said COMMON oil.
 
So we as "experts" on a oil board are going to agree that the color of oil is a indication of how well it is cleaning?

Interesting...
 
With today's SM oils I see the Synthetic vs. Conventional argument lines blurred to a "butt dyno" conversation. UOA's @5K miles don't reflect any difference. MPG doesn't reflect any difference. Visual inspection of valve train nor "weight" of the oil filter do not reflect any difference.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
So we as "experts" on a oil board are going to agree that the color of oil is a indication of how well it is cleaning?



No.
Thank you.

Seems other members think it does...

Bill

PS: I agree color has NO meaning... If it goes dark or stays "honey" it does not matter.
 
Not in ALL cases. However, synthetic oil does indeed clean the mess left behind by conventional oil. This will among many other factors cause the oil to darken.
 
I've never had any time I ran syn change color any quicker or get darker in any engine that I've had over conventional oils.

And I have run more than one OCI with syn in a row...

And I've had quite a few. From imports to American. From 4 cyl to 8 cyl.

I guess my engines (and families) engines are screwed since they have so much mess in them.

I'm going to do a little fact finding at work in the next week. We have Toyotas, Ford CrownVics, (the new Dodges with the Hemis came in last year and only have 50k on them) a few Ford trucks, quite a few Vans and some Chevy trucks and look in the engines. Some of the engines have easy 200k on them.

Just want to see all the mess since they have never seen any syn, flush, ARX or regular low mile OCIs.

Maybe I'll take a camera along too... (bet I'll get some weird looks from co-workers)

Ok, I'll get more weird looks than normal...

Take care, bill
 
Never said your engines are screwed, but if you are going to deny conventional oil doesn't leave deposits and is more prone to sludge, well OK you are entitled to your opinion.

Are you opening these engines up? Why so early in life?
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Steve S said:
3 - synthetic oil leaves a film on metal parts whereas conventional oil drains off in time.


Izzat so? How ya figure? Some of this stuff is getting over the top. I'd be willing to bet the additive package is FAR more important than the syn/dino argument.

I defer to Bill.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Never said your engines are screwed, but if you are going to deny conventional oil doesn't leave deposits and is more prone to sludge, well OK you are entitled to your opinion.

Are you opening these engines up? Why so early in life?

No they would get REAL upset if I took the valve covers off.
06.gif
So all I'm going to be able to see is whatever I can see with the oil filler or such.

I know not a real science experiment, but a lot more info than color of oil. If a oil filler tube has sludge, I think the chances are there is more where that came from.

These engines see it all. Some idle more than 10-15 hours a day, some get to do high speed stuff at times. Most see the upper RPM range.

The common thing is that ALL get iffy lubed since the state came out and had us stop using the state mechanics so local businesses get our $$. (a big mistake IMO since it is now up to the department or who the unit is issued out and have them go in and get the oil changed)

So many are lucky to get 10k oil change. My 2007 was in the shop for some electrical work (some accessories were not working).

So I took a older outfit out with 100 something thousand on it and when I filled up the gas tank, checked the oil and it was a little under 3 quarts low. So I checked when the last oil change was to be? 13k ago. So I put a big sheet to get its oil changed today...

Got to love fleet vehicles.
15.gif


Take care, bill

PS: And really I do not think that conventional oil changed when it should be is more prone to deposits. Esp with today's oils.

PPS: My 2007 gets it oil changed every 5-7k. Prob one of the few. (and prob will be the one with the most problems later in life...)
 
Originally Posted By: mozart
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Considering how much cleaning up of the engine goes on when switching from conventional to synthetic oil, it's clear to me that conventional is not quite as clean running as some folks think.


I completely agree with you on this. Pennzoil conventional is considered by many to be one of the best conventional oils, but if you compare the calcium level between the yellow bottle and the platinum, the Platinum is usually twice as much. That's going to make a significant difference in cleaning ability.

My moms car had been run on Quaker State synthetic blend for 85,000 miles, changed at the dealer every 3,000 miles. When I took over the maintenance on the car, I used Valvoline Synpower on the first oil change. Within 1,000 miles the oil was darker than it had ever been at a full 3,000 mile interval. The Synpower in that short time had removed some of the visible varnish inside the oil filler that had been there for tens of thousands of miles.


So basically you are implying the Valvoline was superior to the Quaker State synthetic oil in terms of cleanliness. I don't disagree, I just have never heard this before.


The Quaker State was only a synthetic blend, not a full synthetic. Synthetic blend oil tends to have the same detergent additive levels as a standard conventional, and a full synthetic tends to have quite a lot more. Valvoline Synpower has quite a bit of calcium in it, usually at least 50% more than a typical conventional has.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
So we as "experts" on a oil board are going to agree that the color of oil is a indication of how well it is cleaning?



No.
Thank you.

Seems other members think it does...

Bill

PS: I agree color has NO meaning... If it goes dark or stays "honey" it does not matter.


When there is visible varnish removal, I consider there to be a correlation between oil color and cleaning.
 
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