So, after some thought, what causes an oil to be able to retain TBN longer for a longer drain? I hear lots of people say Valvoline isn't good for long drains because of its loss of TBN. But, wouldn't you sort of want an oil that depletes TBN sort of fast-ish? My reasoning behind this thinking is that it would be draining faster since it would be battling corrosive acids better? What do you guys think?
TBN retention
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MolaKule
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Generally speaking, it's the TBN of the detergents that controls the acids through their carbonates and hydroxides which are bases, the opposite of acids. These bases are what neutralizes any acids present. These TBN chemicals neutraize the acids by sacificial means.
The acids that do develop are weak acids.
What you really want is an oil that neutralizes those weak acids over a long period until the TBN goes toward a value of 1.
In some cases, chemicals called "overbased" organic amines and polyamines are added to keep the TBN from levelling off.
The acids that do develop are weak acids.
What you really want is an oil that neutralizes those weak acids over a long period until the TBN goes toward a value of 1.
In some cases, chemicals called "overbased" organic amines and polyamines are added to keep the TBN from levelling off.
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Very complex subject in terms of how the Calcium detergents and Zinc are used up in particular, BUT if you choose a good oil with lots of additives and a TBN of 9 plus it does help the final figure.
Blackstones set the warning figure for TBN at 1.0, BUT some folks like myself that drive cars or trucks subject to severe service think the lower limit should be 3.0.
Blackstones set the warning figure for TBN at 1.0, BUT some folks like myself that drive cars or trucks subject to severe service think the lower limit should be 3.0.
MolaKule,
I'd like your thoughts on the two studies concerning TBN retention that have been talked about here. One being the Mobil study where the TBN tests at ~2.0 at 15K and ~2.0 at 20K. The other being the Chevron study that shows TBN leveling off a about 2.0 and maintaining, but at the same time iron wear shows an exponential increase during that time.
My understanding is that the TBN is the actual capacity of the oil to neutralize acids, acid is added and the oil is titrated to an inflection point. I don't understand how an oil can have X capacity to neutralize acid, absorb 25% more acid(miles of use) and still have X capacity to neutralize acid. I could see this if the methods titrated to a fixed end point, as you could be seeing the effects of buffering. The titration to the inflection point should be signaling the end of any buffering capacity.
Is there a property of the additives that truly allows TBN to remain constant with added acid, or are the TBN methods not giving an accurate picture if certain additives are present?
Ed
I'd like your thoughts on the two studies concerning TBN retention that have been talked about here. One being the Mobil study where the TBN tests at ~2.0 at 15K and ~2.0 at 20K. The other being the Chevron study that shows TBN leveling off a about 2.0 and maintaining, but at the same time iron wear shows an exponential increase during that time.
My understanding is that the TBN is the actual capacity of the oil to neutralize acids, acid is added and the oil is titrated to an inflection point. I don't understand how an oil can have X capacity to neutralize acid, absorb 25% more acid(miles of use) and still have X capacity to neutralize acid. I could see this if the methods titrated to a fixed end point, as you could be seeing the effects of buffering. The titration to the inflection point should be signaling the end of any buffering capacity.
Is there a property of the additives that truly allows TBN to remain constant with added acid, or are the TBN methods not giving an accurate picture if certain additives are present?
Ed
my tan was high on my uao@ 10k mi oci using sustina with 70% freeway driving; i think i could have gone for a 15k+ oci; sustina is designed to not deplete; what does it all mean in 10,000 words or less?
Originally Posted By: tribocessive
my tan was high on my uao@ 10k mi oci using sustina with 70% freeway driving; i think i could have gone for a 15k+ oci; sustina is designed to not deplete; what does it all mean in 10,000 words or less?
I beleive that they are using an overbased detergent add pack (like Mola mentioned above), or at least they claim to be using such.
But, I believe that someone on here has done a VOA on this, and the TBN was a disappointing ~8.1 or so, NOT the 12.something that they claimed when I called them and spoke to a 'tech' about the specs.
Mola; can the "overbased" add pack oils actually show a lower initial/static/VOA TBN, but actually have a much better TBN retention??
my tan was high on my uao@ 10k mi oci using sustina with 70% freeway driving; i think i could have gone for a 15k+ oci; sustina is designed to not deplete; what does it all mean in 10,000 words or less?
I beleive that they are using an overbased detergent add pack (like Mola mentioned above), or at least they claim to be using such.
But, I believe that someone on here has done a VOA on this, and the TBN was a disappointing ~8.1 or so, NOT the 12.something that they claimed when I called them and spoke to a 'tech' about the specs.
Mola; can the "overbased" add pack oils actually show a lower initial/static/VOA TBN, but actually have a much better TBN retention??
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