Scotland votes in referendum on independence!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What was the whole reason behind the independence vote in the first place?


If you watch the 15-min. segment by English comedian John Oliver, he goes over it pretty well. But basically the Scots tend to be a bit more to the left of their UK gov't (on issues like the Iraq War) and don't feel they've gotten a fair share of the oil revenues from the seas around Scotland among other things,and the Tory (but also Labor) gov'ts in Westminster tends to be dismissive and disrespectful overall...

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: bvance554

Trivia... Who was the first country to leave the British Empire?


The US of A.

 

[CourierDriver]

You cannot make everyone happy.....................I'm going to Waffle House, you stay home and eat your cereal.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What was the whole reason behind the independence vote in the first place?

The creation of another socialist welfare state.


In a nutshell: Link.

As someone who's spent a significant portion of my life in Scotland, I would have hoped it had gone the other way.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Why is there no on celebrating in the streets?

Very soon we will be hearing about Mediocre Britain. With their immigration policy they are becoming a third world country.

 

[Vikas]

Given that the final tally was 55-45, I am suspecting this entire so called "photo-finish" was pretty much manufactured. The 10 point difference is well outside the margin of error for the current poll technology. So, why was the world kept on the edge of the seat for last few weeks? antiqueshell should consider *this* conspiracy angle!

 

[weasley]

I predicted a comfortable "no". My belief is that the types of people who are "no" voters are the types of people who are resistant to, or wary of, change - conservatives. The same types of people who are less likely to be emotionally babbling about their voting intention in the run-up to the referendum. I think the polls simply missed out the quieter, older but influential voters.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: weasley
I predicted a comfortable "no". My belief is that the types of people who are "no" voters are the types of people who are resistant to, or wary of, change - conservatives. The same types of people who are less likely to be emotionally babbling about their voting intention in the run-up to the referendum. I think the polls simply missed out the quieter, older but influential voters.


Good call. My wife predicted the same. I thought it would carry on the basis of emotion...which was all over the press, including the responsible press, not just the hysterical press...

Issues of pride, self-determination, and economics were all wrapped up in this vote...those tend to be emotional issues...and the underlying Scottish opinion seemed to be: we don't get our fair share from London.

But in truth, the average Scot would have seen a big increase in taxes to fund the programs that the Scottish want...North Sea oil revenues wouldn't be enough to provide for the Scottish Government spending...and there was the sticky issue of currency valuation and EU membership restrictions on fiscal policy...

 

[javacontour]

It will be interesting to see what this does to the English population of the UK. There is some speculation that it has awakened English nationalism, and questions about how the Scots, in their estimation, have more power and derive more benefit from being part of the UK than do Englanders.

Even some speculation about leaving the EU.

It will be interesting to see how things play out after this vote.

 

[A_Harman]

Scotty:
"I canna' give ya' anymore power, Captain! The dilithium crystals are fused!"

James T. Kirk:
"Scotty, you're fired."

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What was the whole reason behind the independence vote in the first place?

The creation of another socialist welfare state.


In a nutshell: Link.

As someone who's spent a significant portion of my life in Scotland, I would have hoped it had gone the other way.


It all sounds great until you get to this..
Quote:
This gap is growing and with the current UK Government the richest only seem to get richer and the poor becoming poorer. With a smaller gap between the highest and lowest incomes, there will be less jealousy, greed and more happiness.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Trav

It all sounds great until you get to this..
Quote:
With a smaller gap between the highest and lowest incomes, there will be less jealousy, greed and more happiness.




That's so true. The entire history of failed socialist experiments in the 20th century grew from that little sentence.

 

[andrewg]

From my understanding it was basically a socialist attempt to gain more of an ability to become a "nanny" state. The UK, although certainly socialistic enough for many, apparently wasn't socialistic enough for certain Scottish folks in leadership.
But....what do I know.
The people seem to have made a choice. A better one in my opinion. All this nonsense about Braveheart was just meant to appeal to the emotional side of things and a distraction from the truth.

 

[Apollo14]

There has been a Scottish independence movement for a long time. So getting to this point has been in the works for a while and not just driven by recent complaints at austerity policies (which btw have been complained about throughout the UK).

And you may have missed that the huge implication of 45% of Scots wanting independence is going to be further powers given to the Scottish parliament, perhaps including letting them run welfare policies and income tax (as well as the current health service and education), and that this devolution will probably also mean more devolution throughout the rest of the UK. It is by no means "winner takes all" and it should not be in a well functioning democracy.

Probably won't be reported in the news in future so outside of the UK nobody will notice, but there is going to be major constitutional change in the UK over the next few years, probably the most ever in the last 100 years or so.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: weasley
Think of the UK like the USA, just with 4 'states' (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland). Each state has some local power, but not quite as much as US states do, and is governed by a national government which happens to be based in London (England). A consequence of the "no" vote is that Scotland have been promised more local powers, whilst remaining part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (to give it its full title).

An analogy might be if, say, Alaska decided it wanted to become an independent nation.



Its a shame to see the Balkinization of the once great British home islands. What's left after Scotland is gone? Might as well start calling it England again.

If Alaska decided to leave as other states have in the past I would expect Washington to use the force of arms to keep them in the union. We settled this question in 1865.


The downside of the enforced peace Europe has been in since 1945 is that a lot of European nations are losing their vitality and will to defend themselves. NATO and Pax America have their downsides. France is the only bright spot.

 

[Apollo14]

Sure there's a tad of emotional nationalism behind this, but 45% voting for independence is partly about disquiet against decisions made by centralized power structures.

Not very different to the unhappiness with our federal government. It's always good to make as many decisions locally as possible. And even the leaders who wanted to break away wanted to keep the same currency, join the EU and presumably NATO. They just wanted to make more decisions about Scotland in Scotland, reflecting that as a culture they have their own values as well.

Ironically, decades ago having a cultural identity was maybe more important than now where globalization and the culture of millennials is all about being international and removing borders.

I totally don't see any parallels or relevance comparing this with the Balkans or with Alaska / military force / 1865.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

Its a shame to see the Balkinization of the once great British home islands. What's left after Scotland is gone? Might as well start calling it England again.

If the Scots, Brits, Welsh and Irish can't get along now, imagine what it will be like in a generation or two when most of the British are descended from South Asia, Somalia, Eastern Europe and the Caribbean.

The indigenous people descended from the British Isles are already a minority in London's schools. I imagine sectarian tensions will only grow.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Given that the final tally was 55-45, I am suspecting this entire so called "photo-finish" was pretty much manufactured. The 10 point difference is well outside the margin of error for the current poll technology. So, why was the world kept on the edge of the seat for last few weeks? antiqueshell should consider *this* conspiracy angle!


I already had sent a PM to Apollo 14 late last night which indicated that the vote was rigged. This happens all the time, the UK can't afford to lose Scotland for a number of reasons, also if any independence movement succeeds like this one, it opens up the way for others to follow, especially the dissolution of that
tower of babel, the European Union. You see by nature "man" is a tribal creature, and no amount of artificial construct will change this fact. Perhaps the only "tribe" that tries to impose
globalism on others is that of the Ashkanazi jews, but of course they do NOT want it for themselves.

 

[Vikas]

You never disappoint us by your antiques!

 

[19jacobob93]

Originally Posted By: Throckmorton
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

Its a shame to see the Balkinization of the once great British home islands. What's left after Scotland is gone? Might as well start calling it England again.

If the Scots, Brits, Welsh and Irish can't get along now, imagine what it will be like in a generation or two when most of the British are descended from South Asia, Somalia, Eastern Europe and the Caribbean.

The indigenous people descended from the British Isles are already a minority in London's schools. I imagine sectarian tensions will only grow.


Absolutely
I grew up in Bradford which is about 35-40% SE Asian, mainly Pakistani. Some areas are 90-100% Pakistani and their hatred towards the white British is disgusting and shouldn't have to put up with it in their own country. I know many stories of the last few white families being chased out and forced to leave an area
They're not all like that but what goes on and the level that it occurs is appalling. It is happening all over the county and is only an ever growing problem that is being covered up