Saved $2,100 - HVAC

[AZjeff]

Last Thursday evening our furnace fan stopped fanning. Friday morning a "trusted" tech came out and deemed the fan dead; quoted $1200 for a new fan or $4200 for a new 2 stage Bryant furnace.

You're a handy guy, did you give a thought to replacing the fan or fan motor yourself? Was your furnace in need of replacing anyway? A quick & dirty search for Bryant furnace fan found the most expensive entire fan unit being $385 and motors mostly under $200. I know what I would have done.

 

[alarmguy]

Had the same thing this summer. Power surge cooked the HVAC control board, was quoted $550 to replace, easily found one for $120 and it took me 20 minutes to carefully switch out and that included color coding the connections and taking photos. I'm sure no electrician but I can plug in connectors.

Ahh, yes, my sons heat pump last winter was freezing up, so he was using the element only option and other times he would pour warm water on the condenser to melt the ice. The unit is about 22 years old, original when house was built, cools perfect. So this summer I had him order a new heat board off e-bay, cost was about $45 or so.
I ran up to his house and installed it in Oct, he is happy to report no more freeze ups.
This was the old one, I actually take photos of the wiring as there were about 12 wires, I took from many angles, forgot to take one of the new once installed. It was a kind of feel good feeling helping him out because it worked
I just checked with him, the unit is now 26 years old.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You're a handy guy, did you give a thought to replacing the fan or fan motor yourself? Was your furnace in need of replacing anyway? A quick & dirty search for Bryant furnace fan found the most expensive entire fan unit being $385 and motors mostly under $200. I know what I would have done.

I don't know squat about electrical stuff. Let's just say I am pretty sure they did just fine with the $4200 they got from me. I gave the 2 guys $20 to hit the incredible local taco place.

I bet the Bryant 80 was well under $2000. Maybe much less. This is capitalism.

Your point is well taken. Not to mention spot on.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

So you're in HVAC or a relative is and feel a bit defensive.

I'm not and have no relatives in the business. I do know a good bit about it.

It is amusing that people think that there should be some sort of cap on costs of something that one does not have the knowledge, experience or desire to perform themselves. In the United States, you have the freedom to pursue pretty much any vocation you want to.

At this period in history, there's an EXTREME shortage of skilled tradespeople, mostly due to some idiocy from the last 30-40 years where an agenda was pushed upon people that they HAD to obtain, at minimum, a 4-year degree and everything would just fall into their lap. I've even heard the last 30+ years from 'business people' that people who work for them/work in a professional environment shouldn't worry with mundane tasks such as home repair/maintenance, because they can make enough at work (in their office cube) to pay that low-level person who might come to their home to repair/maintain something.

Except that line of thinking is 100% wrong. That skilled tradesman coming to your home to "fix something" is more than likely making more than you do today.

And before your palm reader is paid for another incorrect guess, I'm not in the trades, either.

 

[Number_35]

I'm not and have no relatives in the business. I do know a good bit about it.

It is amusing that people think that there should be some sort of cap on costs of something that one does not have the knowledge, experience or desire to perform themselves. In the United States, you have the freedom to pursue pretty much any vocation you want to.

At this period in history, there's an EXTREME shortage of skilled tradespeople, mostly due to some idiocy from the last 30-40 years where an agenda was pushed upon people that they HAD to obtain, at minimum, a 4-year degree and everything would just fall into their lap. I've even heard the last 30+ years from 'business people' that people who work for them/work in a professional environment shouldn't worry with mundane tasks such as home repair/maintenance, because they can make enough at work (in their office cube) to pay that low-level person who might come to their home to repair/maintain something.

Except that line of thinking is 100% wrong. That skilled tradesman coming to your home to "fix something" is more than likely making more than you do today.

And before your palm reader is paid for another incorrect guess, I'm not in the trades, either.

In the late '80s a friend phoned to vent about a car repair. The starter motor on his 1st-gen Honda Civic had failed, and the garage was going to charge him $200 for a replacement.

He had a business degree, and was quite intelligent. He went on to do a master's degree, and has held a number of high-level jobs in management.

He said "It's just a little box! How can they charge $200 for a little box?"

I said something like "Great, here's your opportunity. Set up a business supplying replacement starter motors for significantly cheaper, and you can own the market."

Of course it didn't happen.

He's the same guy who disparaged my electronics diploma. "How can it take two years to learn that stuff? What's to learn?"

To which my response was "Why go to school for six years to learn about business? Just determine the need for a product or service, and learn how to produce or provide it at a price people will pay such that you make a profit. What's to learn?"

 

[kschachn]

I'm not and have no relatives in the business. I do know a good bit about it.

It is amusing that people think that there should be some sort of cap on costs of something that one does not have the knowledge, experience or desire to perform themselves. In the United States, you have the freedom to pursue pretty much any vocation you want to.

At this period in history, there's an EXTREME shortage of skilled tradespeople, mostly due to some idiocy from the last 30-40 years where an agenda was pushed upon people that they HAD to obtain, at minimum, a 4-year degree and everything would just fall into their lap. I've even heard the last 30+ years from 'business people' that people who work for them/work in a professional environment shouldn't worry with mundane tasks such as home repair/maintenance, because they can make enough at work (in their office cube) to pay that low-level person who might come to their home to repair/maintain something.

Except that line of thinking is 100% wrong. That skilled tradesman coming to your home to "fix something" is more than likely making more than you do today.

And before your palm reader is paid for another incorrect guess, I'm not in the trades, either.

The operative word is value. In the examples cited in this thread there is a problem with the value received for the services performed. Here people are being grossly overcharged for a service solely because they are unable to perform the work themselves, or are being frightened away because of fear mongering.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

You can slide that entire squirrel cage out of the furnace, remove the motor and then remove the cage. Rinse the cage down with some of that purple liquid detergent, take a hose to it and remove twenty years of dust build up. Assemble and enjoy. It's not that difficult once you figure out how the components come apart. Go for it cowboy.

 

[zzyzzx]

In my case if I can buy a common HVAC control board easily for $120 the local HVAC place can buy it for less.

I had to buy one for my A/C compressor, and it was less than $20 off eBay.

 

[JimPghPA]

Our furnace indoor main blower motor was making a high pitch noise. I took it apart and oiled the felt pads that oil the cheap sleave bearings on both sides. I used GC ( the good Castrol 0W-30 ) put it all back together and it is still working fine with no noise many years later.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

The operative word is value. In the examples cited in this thread there is a problem with the value received for the services performed. Here people are being grossly overcharged for a service solely because they are unable to perform the work themselves, or are being frightened away because of fear mongering.

I don't know how to treat cancer with IVIG or Chemo or Radiation. I don't know how to surgically repair a knee or shoulder. I don't know how to perform heart surgery to close a hole in a valve or perform a bypass.

Those things cost more than $100k for what might seem like a few hours of work.


Are those things overvalued to people that can perform them?

 

[AZjeff]

I'm not and have no relatives in the business. I do know a good bit about it.

So in the situation I described you'd without question pay $550 for the job?

@kschachn got it exactly right. I don't expect a discount price but I don't like the feeling I'm being bent over just because.

As far as HVAC tech shortages locally they had the guy here the morning after I called.

 

[nomas]

The problem is not about the cost of the services . It's about the quality and HONESTY of the services . Replacing an A/C compressor when all you needed was a capacitor ? I've seen it ..

 

[mattd]

@Hillbilly Deluxe I am a tradesman, and have been for about 20 years (not HVAC). The prices they charge for work performed is out of left field. Being mechanically and electrically savy, I am fortunate enough to be able to do all repairs myself. The only thing someone else has done for me at my home is the roof, simply because I did not have that much time to do it when it needed replacing.

Many of these “techs” that come to provide services are just parts changers. They, many times, have little ability to actually diagnose a problem and repair it. Your comparison of a tradesman to a surgeon is apples to oranges. Home appliance repair is much different than surgery.

Another example. A good friend of mine works for a propane/oil company. He ran about 100’ of black iron pipe in a customers house (he said it was majority straight runs). Took him and his partner 5 hours. The customer received a $6,000 bill for the work. He and his partner make $30/hr.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

So in the situation I described you'd without question pay $550 for the job?

@kschachn got it exactly right. I don't expect a discount price but I don't like the feeling I'm being bent over just because.

As far as HVAC tech shortages locally they had the guy here the morning after I called.

I paid a vet clinic $350 yesterday to look at a cat, diagnose her with some sort of skin allergy, give her an anti-biotic and clip her claws. Because my wife nor I are vicenarians. We didn't have the means nor knowledge nor experience to do any of that. The anti-biotic was probably $5, syringe $1.50 and they put a disposable pad in the crate after our cat messed on the towel in there. They provided a nice facility, three skilled/experience people, etc.

I've had to pay what I thought was large amounts of money to have people fix things for me. As I've aged, I've realized that I need to educate myself about some things, develop relationships with people about things and try my best to research situations in order to receive the best solution for the minimum amount of outlay.

I'm not saying everyone should sign up for the $135 annual HVAC program. But maybe pay attention to who might be the better servicing contractor in your area and deal with them. Maybe get them out once every 24-36 months to perform a check. I don't know.

My 2015-era Lennox iComfort Wifi thermostat recently lost it's screen. I called the local Lennox dealer, who I have a relationship with, probably more than anyone else could due to some unique business circumstances and talked to them about it. "We've had a slew of calls in the last 90 days about these." I asked them what they were doing about them, they said they were installing EcoBee thermostats.

So I order one myself. Turns out I needed to replace the current 5-conductor Tstat wire with 7-conductor. I educated myself about this over a period of three days, on and off messing with it. I spent 1-1/2 hours last Saturday morning on this and 3 hours on Monday....crawling under the house, crawling out, crawling in, crawling out. Me and the wife, pulling some new wire. Stripping wire ends, terminating them. After about 5 hours, we had a new functioning thermostat. Yes, a service tech would have had it done in about an hour (with my help on pulling the wire) and instead of a $155 Tstat and $40 roll of wire, I would have had a $350 bill.

But I learned something and know more about this stuff. I also used several tools, probably would have cost over $250 to go buy tools/tool sets of what I used from screwdrivers, drill, large diameter bit, wire strippers, flashlights, etc.

Ever stop to take into account the tools these people have to have on hand?

 

[kschachn]

I don't know how to treat cancer with IVIG or Chemo or Radiation. I don't know how to surgically repair a knee or shoulder. I don't know how to perform heart surgery to close a hole in a valve or perform a bypass.

Those things cost more than $100k for what might seem like a few hours of work.


Are those things overvalued to people that can perform them?

So you would have an HVAC technician perform heart surgery? It appears so since you are equating the two professions in terms of required technical knowledge.

I do not need an MD to repair a furnace. I didn’t need one to replace the evaporator on the furnace either. I didn’t need one to replace an entire furnace with one of the same form factor. It just wasn’t required.

In the research lab I worked in the technician who came to repair our NMR machine had a PhD. Apparently that was the skill level required to repair such a machine. However, take a look at the individuals that are repairing residential HVAC equipment. Is a similar level of intelligence and education required here as for heart surgery or troubleshooting and repairing an NMR machine?

Your argument makes no sense.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I hate to tell you, but @Hillbilly Deluxe is correct. Posters seem to think they get to decide what is fair and what is not. I got news for you; there is no fair. Nobody twisted my arm to pay the $4200 (plus the $175 for the tech to come out originally). I envy you guys like @AZjeff who can fix this stuff. I am at the mercy of the market.

Do I feel bad? Well, I don't feel bad that computer programmers make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for sitting around on their butt drinking free coffee and playing with a computer. I have done labor and I have done desk jobs. I'll take the easy money any day.

 

[KrisZ]

I hate to tell you, but @Hillbilly Deluxe is correct. Posters seem to think they get to decide what is fair and what is not. I got news for you; there is no fair. Nobody twisted my arm to pay the $4200 (plus the $175 for the tech to come out originally). I envy you guys like @AZjeff who can fix this stuff. I am at the mercy of the market.

Do I feel bad? Well, I don't feel bad that computer programmers make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for sitting around on their butt drinking free coffee and playing with a computer. I have done labor and I have done desk jobs. I'll take the easy money any day.

I agree as well. Supply and demand. If the market was suddenly flooded with heart surgeons, the prices for heart surgery would 100% go down.

Prices are what they are, that”s the market. Paying for service and then complaining is nothing more than “victim” mentality.
For me, I either DIY or pay and if I decide to pay, I will not be complaining about it.

 

[IndyIan]

I don't know how to treat cancer with IVIG or Chemo or Radiation. I don't know how to surgically repair a knee or shoulder. I don't know how to perform heart surgery to close a hole in a valve or perform a bypass.

Those things cost more than $100k for what might seem like a few hours of work.


Are those things overvalued to people that can perform them?

Home HVAC isn't heart surgery for sure... its not usually a life and death situation....
I guess a lot of these guys see what the homeowner will pay, sure a unit is 20 year old, it will probably fail in the next 10 years? Why not see if the homeowner wants to pay for some warm fuzzies knowing that they have a new good unit for the next 20 years? Then they see how much the warm fuzzies are worth to the homeowner...
I'm sure on a lot of these crazy quotes, unless the guy truly is booked for months, a 50% reduction is possible if you negotiate and wait.
We had no real deadline to get our house built and this happened a few couple times. We'd get a quote, some time would pass while we decided if we could do the job or we were just finishing the next steps, and the guy would call again with his, "I need some work" price.
The guy that put in our driveway forgot how much he quoted originally and then quoted for nearly half his first quote... He still did pretty well on it.

 

[Fitter30]

When replacing blower or condenser fan motors DO NOT go by hp alone go by name plate amps if using a aftermarket. If its 1/3 hp and rated at 5 .2 amps and the new motor is 1/3 hp and rated at 5.1 amps go to a 1/2hp. These motors have service factor of 1 and will trip on internal overload. Manufacturers play games with amperage.

 

[Fitter30]

Residential hvac contractors went to flat rate 20 years ago from time and materials. When that happened the price for service work went through the roof. Prices of parts installed are were high back in 1970 markup was 100% on most parts plus the time.