Redline 0w40, 5w40 and 10w40: What is the difference?

Pennzoil motor oil
altaylar said:
Please, just read the paper. It is very well written. Considering how often you post on this forum, that can help massively by cutting the spread of misinformation around here.
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Please just drop your bravado and extrapolate your superior understanding, and give us a figure for that 40-grade viscosity variance. Otherwise it is your misinformation that such a variance is consequential.
 
kschachn said:
Please just drop your bravado and extrapolate your superior understanding, and give us a figure for that 40-grade viscosity variance. Otherwise it is your misinformation that such a variance is consequential.
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Again, please just read the paper. No need to steer this thread off topic
 
Lake - the Motor Oil Geek, isn't that much of a geek when it comes to Red Line Oil (knowledge) and his results were skewed accordingly in that oil comparison test video. Which was frankly disappointing. I trust RL for boundary layer protection from metal to metal contact, especially if an engine sits (drain down). The polar nature of group 5 esters help the oil to cling to the metal, and helps for cold dry starts.
Lake Speed is not unbiased since he helped blend one of those oils. (not sure which: HPL, or Driven?) He should have tested the Red Line Euro Series, which is for GDI Turbos, suited for LSPI, low ash, but still Group 4/5. (5w30).... which is what I use in a modern turbo M3.

For classics that need more ZDDP for flat tappets or buckets, the Red Line HPMO is the right stuff, and there are many grades! 5w50, 10w40, 0w20, etc. etc.
OP — you can’t go wrong with 5w40 or 10w40
 
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gsxr said:
"High performance" is a generic marketing term that is sorta meaningless IMO.

Most 0W-anything oils are aimed at fuel economy, not performance, longevity, or power production. (Excluding drag-race specific, ultra low viscosity oils that are meant to survive a single quarter-mile.)

😶
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Pretty much every 0W-40 is aimed at performance and longevity, not fuel economy. That's why they are the standard for Dexos R, A40, C40, LL-01...etc. The Winter grade has very little to do with fuel economy, it's predominantly the SAE grade where that focus is made, hence the pursuit of SAE 16, 12 and 8 grades.
tired said:
Only for non-boutiques. Boutiques like Red Line, HPL, and AMSOIL do not cheap out on base stocks with 10W-xx oils. You just get to enjoy lower VIIs.
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If you look at the recent conversation about AMSOIL's Signature Series diesel oil, you'll note that only the the 0W-40 has PAO in it. mPAO can also be used as a VM, hence the HPL no-VII 5W-30. Redline (the topic of this thread) is probably the only one that just does the same base oil combo across the whole white bottle product line, varying VII treat and BOV.
 
330indy said:
Lake - the Motor Oil Geek, isn't that much of a geek when it comes to Red Line Oil (knowledge) and his results were skewed accordingly in that oil comparison test video. Which was frankly disappointing. I trust RL for boundary layer protection from metal to metal contact, especially if an engine sits (drain down). The polar nature of group 5 esters help the oil to cling to the metal, and helps for cold dry starts.
Lake Speed is not unbiased since he helped blend one of those oils. (not sure which: HPL, or Driven?) He should have tested the Red Line Euro Series, which is for GDI Turbos, suited for LSPI, low ash, but still Group 4/5. (5w30).... which is what I use in a modern turbo M3.

For classics that need more ZDDP for flat tappets or buckets, the Red Line HPMO is the right stuff, and there are many grades! 5w50, 10w40, 0w20, etc. etc.
OP — you can’t go wrong with 5w40 or 10w40
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You know what, I have never thought about that. My understanding is that the HP series from Redline is superior to Euro series. BUT Euro series would have done much better on this ranking if that is what he used. You have a really good point here.
 
altaylar said:
BUT Euro series would have done much better on this ranking if that is what he used. You have a really good point here.
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Yes, a big criticism of Lake's selection of oils for that video is he didn't use a single oil with an OEM Euro approval. Could have just used Mobil 1 ESP. Even the LM oil he used was their non-approved Molygen oil IIRC (at least it was an API type oil, not a Euro oil).
 
altaylar said:
You know what, I have never thought about that. My understanding is that the HP series from Redline is superior to Euro series. BUT Euro series would have done much better on this ranking if that is what he used. You have a really good point here.
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Euro Series is an extension of the HP Group 4/5 oils
 
altaylar said:
Yes but their additive package is much lighter, that would make it appear better some of the tests (such as teost)
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I know- that’s why I brought it up.
But for your purposes of a classic car, the regular HP series Motor Oil Geek results still did not tell the whole story of how it benefits certain cars with a good amount of ZDDP. Whether it’s solids, or so-called oxidation, they aren’t factoring in Esters either. There’s all kinds of talk on these forums about meeting OEM specs or certifications, but clearly Red Line doesn’t give a crap about that. I contacted them and forwarded the link to this motor oil geek review and they said clearly it’s skewed. They’re going for Max performance while adjusting the formula appropriately for modern GDI turbo cars, which I do appreciate.
I’ve been a long time customer of Red Line. It’s an area I won’t compromise considering the investment I have in my automobiles.
 
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altaylar said:
I am sure HPL would be a superior option. I might end up going that route. It just happens that I can get Redline for cheaper.

I asked Redline, their response is that they carry the same adpack, all group 4 and 5. The only difference is the VII. Their answer was as if base stocks are exactly the same, but perhaps they meant types are the same, ratios differ.
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I could import oil from Europe for less than HPL. I only live 1 state away and HPL is still too much. Maybe if I owned a million dollar super car I could justify HPL. I would have to get 20K miles per OCI for the life of a vechile to make HPL make sense. Last I checked you could get Redline from Amazon Prime for $48 to $50 a gallon with "free" 2 day shipping but I admit I do not check often since I am more a Walmart 5QT Mobil 1 guy.

I normaly only go looking at Amazon for expensive oils around the holidays or a super slow weekend with nothing to watch or read. I have on ocassions gotten some crazy close out deals on name brand synthetic oils.

At the price point HPL sells at charging expensive shipping is a slap to the face. A low flate rate would be fine but that is not how they normaly work. I have bought prouducts from them a few times but probably 7 times I have put stuff in my cart went to check out and needed to change my pants when I say the shipping and passed! I almost drove there instead but I dislike driving through IL if I can help it.

What I am about to say is a bit dated but back when Red Line first came out with their "0W" line of oils they claimed that they where using the latest most advanced base stocks on the market. That was something like 20 years ago though.

I would say this you really answered your own question when you mentioned that this is a 1990's application that will never be cold started under conditions that would exceed a "10W" ratting. So if you wanted to have some buffer a 5W40 would be a great compromise it does not sound like you would reap any benifit from a 0W40 and a 10W40 is likely more than you need.

Not counting Red Line and other premium oils but historicaly 10W40's back in the G1 and G2+ days had a lot of VII's and usually where not the highest quality VII's either. So even if the 5W40 or 0W40 Red Line products had VII's in them and I am not saying they do they would be way better than 10W40 and 20W50 conventional oils a lot of us grew up with.

Keep in mind not all VII's are the same! The secret suace in Germany Castrol 0W30 was it's use of then expensive shear stable VII's normaly seen in European gear lube back then. I know that VII's are like a vulgar curse word for us oil geeks but they are not all bad they just are not as good as base stocks alone.

Few applications in gasoline powered applications benifit from hths above 3.5 until you get into super aggressive flat tappet cams designed to build lots of power at high rpm's normaly in old school Detroit iron. Usually an hths above 3.5 is seen as insurance against shearing in use be it mechanical or fuel dillution. In high rpm situations where crank speeds remain high for long durations like some racing or long runs on autobahn where the temp. of the oil at the mains is much much higher than in the sump.
 
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JackWildfeuer said:
I could import oil from Europe for less than HPL. I only live 1 state away and HPL is still too much. Maybe if I owned a million dollar super car I could justify HPL. I would have to get 20K miles per OCI for the life of a vechile to make HPL make sense. Last I checked you could get Redline from Amazon Prime for $48 to $50 a gallon with "free" 2 day shipping but I admit I do not check often since I am more a Walmart 5QT Mobil 1 guy.

I normaly only go looking at Amazon for expensive oils around the holidays or a super slow weekend with nothing to watch or read. I have on ocassions gotten some crazy close out deals on name brand synthetic oils.

At the price point HPL sells at charging expensive shipping is a slap to the face. A low flate rate would be fine but that is not how they normaly work. I have bought prouducts from them a few times but probably 7 times I have put stuff in my cart went to check out and needed to change my pants when I say the shipping and passed! I almost drove there instead but I dislike driving through IL if I can help it.

What I am about to say is a bit dated but back when Red Line first came out with their "0W" line of oils they claimed that they where using the latest most advanced base stocks on the market. That was something like 20 years ago though.

I would say this you really answered your own question when you mentioned that this is a 1990's application that will never be cold started under conditions that would exceed a "10W" ratting. So if you wanted to have some buffer a 5W40 would be a great compromise it does not sound like you would reap any benifit from a 0W40 and a 10W40 is likely more than you need.

Not counting Red Line and other premium oils but historicaly 10W40's back in the G1 and G2+ days had a lot of VII's and usually where not the highest quality VII's either. So even if the 5W40 or 0W40 Red Line products had VII's in them and I am not saying they do they would be way better than 10W40 and 20W50 conventional oils a lot of us grew up with.

Keep in mind not all VII's are the same! The secret suace in Germany Castrol 0W30 was it's use of then expensive shear stable VII's normaly seen in European gear lube back then. I know that VII's are like a vulgar curse word for us oil geeks but they are not all bad they just are not as good as base stocks alone.

Few applications in gasoline powered applications benifit from hths above 3.5 until you get into super aggressive flat tappet cams designed to build lots of power at high rpm's normaly in old school Detroit iron. Usually an hths above 3.5 is seen as insurance against shearing in use be it mechanical or fuel dillution. In high rpm situations where crank speeds remain high for long durations like some racing or long runs on autobahn where the temp. of the oil at the mains is much much higher than in the sump.
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So, go to 30K intervals and you will be ahead with HPL.
 
kschachn said:
Apparently you can fine-tune within the grade by adjusting the winter rating and achieve a significant fuel economy improvement.

Who knew?
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If this is your take, I believe that you were not joking when you said you read the paper and could not find anything that would invalidate what you said, even though they had a whole section doing just that.
 
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