Reason NOT to use Amsoil

[Pablo]

The implication that Amsoil doesn't test their oils is strong in your posts and somehow you imply none of Amsoil's motor oil actually are API SM.

Pretty soon someone might ask you for proof.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
The implication that Amsoil doesn't test their oils is strong in your posts and somehow you imply none of Amsoil's motor oil actually are API SM.

They have one line which apparently is, but Amsoil fans don't seem too interested in it. None of the other products are API certified.

Quote:
Pretty soon someone might ask you for proof.

It is incumbent upon the manufacturer of the oil that you, Pablo, sell, to prove that their oils are what they claim they are. Third party certifications are a good way to do that. Amsoil's oil's, aside from one line, are not certified. And not everyone is prepared to go for Amsoil's, and your, "Trust Me" line. Certainly, none of the major auto manufacturers are willing to go for it. Amsoil is just another oil that voids the warranty. So even if the Amsoil folks don't believe in API certifications, why haven't they been able to persuade the engineers at GM, Toyota, Honda, etc. that their "superior" oil should get an exception and become an allowed oil, for warranty purposes?

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No you simply inferred that. It's your right. But it doesn't indicate anything except your bias against an oil that doesn't carry your beloved stamp of approval.

Amsoil fans really are touchy on this subject, aren't they?

At any rate, I'm in very good company. Because my view regarding API, ILSAC, and ACEA testing coincides with the official views of GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW, Mercedes Benz, BMW... need I go on? Your view on the matter is limited to the maker of Amsoil and its loyal fans... along with other boutique oil makers and their fans. Why can't Amsoil persuade the engineers at *any* of the auto makers that Amsoil should get a special exception?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Amsoil is just another oil that voids the warranty.


Another statement. Please prove this.

Using Amsoil will not "void your warranty".

http://www.amsoil.com/news/2008_worried_over_warranties.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
It is incumbent upon the manufacturer of the oil...... to prove that their oils are what they claim they are.


Yes and you seem to claim a) Amsoil hasn't done this b) Amsoil is faking it or something sinister. So it's up to the person making such allegations to prove such things.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Interesting care to elaborate a little more?

How can you have missed this point?

Care to write up a defense of Amsoil using tests which are only appropriate for gear oils as one of the very pillars of their marketing campaign for engine oils? Why can't they present *relevant* tests as evidence, instead? That and their equivocation and excuse-making about their lack of independent certifications speaks volumes to the objective observer.

As such, I've reasonably formed a distrust of the makers of Amsoil, based upon the evidence at hand.

-Steve


No need for me to defend Amsoil. Funny there is another thread on Noria very similar to this one, makes you think. I'll just sit back and watch the show.

I'm thinking a cert. product might be a safer bet if you are the kind of person who worries. I'm using it now, no problems, but will be making a change to Edge 0w20, it was a cost thing, and I don't do extended drains. Still I have no issues with their oils. From time to time I do wonder what would happen if a warranty issue came up because of the oil, but odds are stacked heavily against that.

 

[Pablo]

Honestly the discussions on Noria are degrading and almost disgusting. I hope we don't reach that low. On one hand you have an Amsoil dealer who just won't let it go. He's over the top IMHO. In the other corner there appears to be a biased ring leader who thinks he's "outing" people by posting their bio information in the middle of an oil/filter thread. No knowledge to be gained there. I pretty much gave up posting on NORIA unless someone drags my name into it.

 

[demarpaint]

Yes the tone is more civil here. That dealer just won't give up, nor compromise. I like the more honest approach here. Amsoil makes some great products, which like all great products has limitations, and is not for everyone. When a product is jammed down peoples throats, threads like the one on Noria tend to grow out of control! We've seen that here too.

What does upset me though is the rep there made refs to extending an OCI 5 times more than the suggested interval while under a warranty. I agree with ADFD1 in saying that is not good advise while under a warranty. It isn't about Amsoil paying or Ford paying in that example, it is about tempting fate while under a warranty. Extending an OCI while under warranty with a UOA to back it up sounds like a smart move if you feel the need to extend the drain past the OM suggestions. You can also use XL follow the OM, or use the top of the line product if you like, and still follow the OM. After all a car is a big investment, we all want the best, and want to sleep well at night.

I better stop before I start the same nonsense here!

 

[JustinH]

Here is my case for and against Amsoil.

Sure they make a good product, at a premium price.

I think it is worth it if you are managing a fleet of vehicles not under factory warranty. Say, you have to manage 10+ delivery vans. You will save a good amount of money by extending the drain intervals, and since you put a ton of miles on the vehicles, you won't have to deal with time intervals.

For the average Joe, driving a sedan to and from work, you probably don't put enough miles on fast enough to make it worthwhile financially.

That new Chevy Equinox motor will run for quite some time regardless if you put Amsoil in there, or Supertech from Wallyworld.

My case against it would be that Chevy will void the warranty if you are extending the drain interval.

For my fleet of 2 cars, we use regular dino oil that is on sale. I don't drive a performance turbo, or supercharged car that would benefit from a good synthetic like Amsoil.

Last year I drove 9k miles, my girlfriend drove about 13k.

My car got two oil changes last year, hers got three.

Total cost for each oil change was about 12 dollars.

 

[sangyup81]

Amsoil's other fluids like Transmission fluids and differential fluids will benefit you.

 

[Johnny]

All their products have benefit if used as directed. It just seems most do not read the directions or recommendations thoroughly. Can this oil or that oil go 25-30K, yes it can, but there are limitations and you have to read about them. Amsoil clearly spells it out. On the other hand, the guy down the block that sells it our of his garage is telling his neighbors just put this in there with one of our filters and your good to go the distance.

I have used several of their products since 1980 and have never had a problem with any of them. All performed as stated.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I just get a little tired of the bashing. Of course NONE of the people doing the bashing use the products, which gets me going when they present their case for the poor quality, lack of paperwork, etc. of whatever oil they may be currently criticizing.

We own the oldest original running engine in a van ever produced by the manufacturer of our aftermarket equipment. This equipment is sold all over the world. Literally tens of thousands of units in operation in all kinds of conditions.

This van was born and raised on Amsoil, changed by OLM. Still going strong, no consumption and no smoke.

So we can at least agree that Amsoil didn't seem to harm the engine!

The joy is we have so many choices. I don't care what Bergman uses. He gets to choose. But so do I.

 

[ScottG]

I think Amsoil fans tend to use the long-drain oils, which is not the XL line. The XL line is being sold at quick lube places all over the place. They seem to be making inroads in the regular market. I also use the XL 5w20 in one of my cars.

I'm sure you could just use whatever and change it, but everyone has their preference. Growing up, my friends dad always used Quaker State in his big block suburban. Was it better? Who knows, but he knew what was in there and maintained his vehicles.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27

At any rate, I'm in very good company. Because my view regarding API, ILSAC, and ACEA testing coincides with the official views of GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW, Mercedes Benz, BMW... need I go on?


Before I add anything I will admit I am a fan.

It seems to me in this case that the only acceptable proof of the product would be 1 or more of the above as accreditation of said product, all of which are fee driven.

So your demands would seem to be: "Pay the fee, have it on your label and then I will trust you."

Without meeting these demands they are not to be trusted. Not simply Amsoil, but all manufacturers that have not paid the fee related to the above listed certification that is being held up as proof. If you have API I want ILSAC. If you have API and ILSAC I want ACEA and so on until you have them all. Then they are to be trusted.

 

[Liquid_Turbo]

My only reason.. is that its too expensive. hahah

 

[Trajan]

Well, yes. That is my demand. Or a condition that must be met if you want my money if you like.

Why buy a 5w30 from Amsoil that does not meet the specs when I can get oils that have been tested and meet API SM/ACEA A3/B3/LL01. And are cheaper to buy?

Doesn't mean Amsoil is a bad oil. Just not good enough for me.

That includes Redline as well

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I just get a little tired of the bashing. Of course NONE of the people doing the bashing use the products, which gets me going when they present their case for the poor quality, lack of paperwork, etc. of whatever oil they may be currently criticizing.

We own the oldest original running engine in a van ever produced by the manufacturer of our aftermarket equipment. This equipment is sold all over the world. Literally tens of thousands of units in operation in all kinds of conditions.

This van was born and raised on Amsoil, changed by OLM. Still going strong, no consumption and no smoke.

So we can at least agree that Amsoil didn't seem to harm the engine!

The joy is we have so many choices. I don't care what Bergman uses. He gets to choose. But so do I.


Who is bashing the actual quality of the Amsoil products? Saying don't use Amsoil SSO while under warranty because it does not carry the required API certification is not bashing the product( it is stating a simple fact - it is not certified at all let alone to the level GM requires ). Saying don't extend your OCI beyond what the mfg allows for while under warranty is not bashing the product either( again it is just stating a simple fact - don't exceed the mfg's mileage/time limit for your OCI while under warranty ). They are simple statements to help someone out who is making a possible big mistake with their warranty. Neither is saying the product is bad or even that it is not capable of extended OCI's. Just don't use/do it under warranty.

NOT because Amsoil is bad but because car mfg's have the right to set some requirements for warranty preservation. Running extended OCI's and using non API certified oils is/can be an issue( if you ever have an internal engine issue ). Most who say not to use the non certified oil are saying to use XL if that is the brand the OP wants. So it isn't an anti Amsoil campaign or an Amsoil bash fest or anything here. Just saying use what product they offer that meets your warranty needs and change it on time.

I also don't think saying you want that certification before using the product is bashing it either. Again, just wanting something( ie; industry accepted certification standards )before use. Something, that a previous poster brought up earlier, cheaper oils of lesser quality have.

I do agree that people should not bash a product if they have never used it. You can state why you have never used a product but to trash soemthing you have never used is kind of foolish. I have only run Amsoil in my boat and that was just last year. I don't like the company behind the product so I avoid their stuff. I have always recognized and given credit however for their fine products. I just don't see the bashing of Amsoil you are talking about here? Certainly it is nothing like what RP goes through with the "Legion Of I Have Never Used It But Hate It Anyway" bashers on this site who do beat up on the actual quality of the oil while never having used it. I just do not see that against Amsoil. The Amsoil bashing is more directed at company ethics and marketing.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Using Amsoil will not "void your warranty".

Wow. How very convincing. Amsoil has authored two documents claiming that using Amsoil won't void your warranty and posted them on their site. My manual specifically says ILSAC GF-4. That pretty unambiguously torpedoes Amsoil's erroneous claims on that matter regarding my Toyota. And other manufacturers' requirements that I've seen are similar in nature. It's very clear. Amsoil's marketing department (which includes you, Pablo) has a tough job to be sure. It's can't be easy arguing that up is down, hot is cold, and black is white, year after year.

I'm glad you posted the second link though. Because it's another good example of Amsoil's shadiness. This quote is particularly interesting:

Quote:
“No, that’s not true. We cannot and would not
void a warranty for use of another brand of oil.” -Larry Gutjahr, P&A Lubricants Category Manager, Harley-Davidson


It's interesting for 3 reasons. Firstly, it is obviously taken out of context. (What's not true?)

Secondly, it simply says that Harley Davidson would not void your warranty based upon the brand name of the oil you use. (And I would guess that the question was about using non-Harley-Davidson oil.) The issue they claim that it addresses is warranty coverage when using an oil which doesn't have the proper certifications.

And thirdly... Harley Davidson??? Is that the best they can do? Could they not find a quote from an auto manufacturer exec to quote, incompletely, and out of context, to "prove" their point.

Your links make Amsoil look scarier than it did before.

Quote:
Yes and you seem to claim a) Amsoil hasn't done this b) Amsoil is faking it or something sinister. So it's up to the person making such allegations to prove such things.

There has been a lot of defensiveness in this thread on the part of Amsoil proponents, which has, among other things, lead some of them into reading more into my comments than is written. This thread is about "Reasons not to use Amsoil". I have noted, factually, that:

1. Most Amsoil products are not API/ILSAC/ACEA certified, which deprives those products of that seal of approval.

2. Without those certifications, most or all new, or certified used, power train warranties are voided.

These are factual reasons for many people to avoid Amsoil. Dispute them or accept them.

Sorry if you are afraid of those facts hurting your business, Pablo. I can understand your concern, considering the length of power train warranties these days. Mine runs all the way to 100,000 miles.

I'll also note that in the absence of API/ILSAC/ACEA certifications, other objective and standardized means are necessary in order to provide uncertified Amsoil products with credible credentials. And I just don't see them. They seem to be depending upon user anecdotes, completely inappropriate use of test procedures like four ball wear, and perhaps the occasional snippet, in isolation, of some API/ACEA test.

I'd like to see Amsoil's oils submitted to a truly independent organization to see exactly how well they would do against API/ILSAC/ACEA procedures. Has such a study been done? Are the results available?

-Steve

 

[rraiderr]

I have been using Amsoil in street cars, race cars, street motorcycles and track motorcycles for years. To date the oil has performed flawlessly and the oil analysis show the product to be top notch.

That is good enough for me and with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act I do not worry about a dealer trying to void my warranty due to the oil I run.

 

[Mokanic]

After 20 years of working in the shops of new car dealers I KNOW they are familiar with the MM act. NEVER,and I repeat, NEVER when an engine failure under warranty in the shop did anyone up the ladder ask,"I wonder if this cutomer used an API certified oil." It just ain't happened. All they concern them selves with is whether there is enough evidence in the engine to indicate if that the customer neglected to perform the minimum maintenance to keep the motor alive. Someone has an axe to grind with Amsoil. Plain and simple. Amsoil,Schaeffer,Royal Purple,Redline,and even Crisco do way more testing and evaluating of their oils than the API ever would. Some of the sorriest oils known to man were sold with the little star on the bottle.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: rraiderr


That is good enough for me and with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act I do not worry about a dealer trying to void my warranty due to the oil I run.



Even under the MMA you STILL must use oil that is of the appropriate weight, that gets changed on time, meets or exceeds the mfg's oil standard, and that carries any called for API certification. In regards to the MMA and OC's all it really does for you is allow you to pick the oil & filter brand you want.

The MMA requires the mfg to provide the oil & filter, and/or labor to do the change, for free if they require OEM parts and/or dealership labor to preserve warranty( ala BMW at one time - still? ). You can do the work yourself or have it done at a shop of your choosing as well( just keep receipts ). That is it however as far as OC's and the MMA.

There is a huge misconception out there that you can do anything you want because of the MMA. Just untrue and that is something many aftermarket companies rely on, and manipulate even more, to sell their products to people who would not knowingly do something to put their warranty at risk.

The MMA does NOT allow you to do whatever the heck you want. The OP has a new 2010 Equinox and the MMA does not allow him, or anyone else, to vary from the mfg's requirements set forth in his owner's manual which for his vehicle are...

5W-30 oil
GM6094M( meets/exceeds )
API certified w/ Starburst
Change by the OLM reaching ZERO %( or before )

That is what the OP MUST do for his OCI's to preserve his warranty "technically". Running Amsoil SSO for a year and 25K or more is NOT warranty acceptable to GM nor is it covered by the MMA even if he uses the correct weight oil. Not API certified and run too long( unless his OLM allows for it ).

None of this is bashing Amsoil's products. None of this is saying they can or can't go a year and 25K or that they will or won't lead to any issues with anyone's engine either. Simply responding to the misguided belief that the MMA allows for things is does not. IIT is not Carte Blanche` to do whatever you want.