Boutique (Amsoil etc) vs premium normal (Mobil1 etc)?

So the debate ranges on. It seems that some of those boutique oils really do have superior characteristics or whatever, but for most of us I just don't see how that would ever make a difference. Much more critical is frequent oil changes using a quality product.
Not really as far as the debate “raging”. As mentioned in this thread, 95%+ of all cars are perfectly served by any oil that meets the OEM specifications. For the 5% or so of cars that are seriously modified (or people that need better protection than the latest API spec due to seriously extended OCIs), the boutique oils can fill that need.

Both of your vehicles will be well-served by any of the synthetic (or even some semi/conventionals) at WM. At 5k OCIs, you’re likely fine even with PYB. Follow your OM.👍🏻
 
I noticed that some of the eBay oil sellers are in Kenya and vietnam. So no thanks to that. There are quite a few people in the United States selling these 12 qt boxes. Presumably some sort of a truckload deal or something. $58 is a few dollars cheaper than buying the jugs at walmart. And I have done pretty used to things being chips to my door. So maybe next time I'll just go to Wally world. Actually, Walmart brings things to my door now too : )
Just say no to buying oil through non-official channels on the internet. It’s a great way to get a mystery liquid that may damage your engine. Stick to big box stores or direct from the manufacturer from those that sell direct. It’s a safety thing.
 
Just say no to buying oil through non-official channels on the internet. It’s a great way to get a mystery liquid that may damage your engine. Stick to big box stores or direct from the manufacturer from those that sell direct. It’s a safety thing.
This is true. Be careful where you buy. Because of the counterfeiters, in some overseas markets (the Middle East in particular), oil companies have employed interesting measures to make the job harder for these counterfeiters. When I was visiting Dubai for instance, you can stand up on top of Castrol jugs without anything happening to the seal. I was told it can withstand up 150 kg of weight... I actually did this myself and nothing happened to the jug... A friend of mine who lives there who is a mechanic has told me he has seen so many engines destroyed because of counterfeiters.

On the other hand, Total, has a completely different sealed design in those markets where seal opens in a very particular circular manner and it's very hard to fake it.

We are lucky we don't have such issues in the United States but be careful where you buy and how you buy it. I wouldn't buy any engine oils off of eBay to begin with.
 
I looked pretty carefully at the box of Mobil 1 that came in. It was sealed, it has some sort of a UPC symbol sticker on it. It's apparently possible to trace it back to Mobil1 to make sure it's authentic. I actually have bought stuff before off Amazon that were counterfeit. I remember a set of razor blades that were labeled gillette, but that ripped a chunk out of my face when I tried to use them. So certainly that happens all the time. All that said, I'm nearly positive this oil is authentic. But to be safe I'm going to run it in my 1989 Chevy instead of my nicer car. It's not worth saving basically $5 or maybe $10 versus just buying it from Walmart the old-fashioned way.
 
Some boutique oils are superior in several ways to the mainstream stuff found at Wal-Mart. The question becomes- does it need to be superior? What is the goal?

Most engines can last ~250K miles on a cost efficient oil found at WM that meets the OE requirements for the vehicle. Most cars will be 20-30 years old at this milage and be pretty well trashed otherwise, so there's not much point in trying to get more miles out of the engine. At this point the plastics are brittle, the interior is crumbling, the door seals are all falling off, the various exterior trims are flaking, the paint is peeling, rust is creeping in, the engine bay is full of dry rotted hoses and tubes ready to spring a leak if you look at them cross-eyed. At this point, most cars are ready to be retired to the recyclers. My Wife's car is 18 years old with "only" 146K miles on it. At the rate she accumulates miles the car will probably have about 225K miles on it when the car is 30 years old. I doubt we'll keep it that long... But the point is that, I don't need a fluid in this car to get it to a 350K mile finish line.

Now... if you have different plans for a car, like putting 25-50K miles per year on the vehicle in some sort of driving job, then suddenly, the wear and tear of the engine and driveline are going to take place at a much faster rate than the general rotting of the rest of the vehicle from the passage of time and exposure to sun/elements. In this case, it may be desirable to use fluids throughout the driveline that provide greater protection from wear and deposits, in an effort to extend the usable life of the engine to 350-500K miles. I would warn that there are some engines and transmissions that will fail much sooner for reasons that no oil can solve, so this is sort of a gamble.

Another example where "boutique" makes sense to me is for the purpose of extending drain intervals on transmissions, transfer cases, t-cases, and diffs, or to attempt to get some of these components to last to the ~200-250K finish line where they are known not to with ordinary maintenance (or no maintenance, as is often the case with "lifetime fluid" recommendations these days). Fluids changes in transmissions, t-cases, and diffs are generally more difficult than changing engine oil, so a more expensive fluid that can extend the interval pays for itself in convenience. I would also argue that a boutique oil may offer a way to "make up" for the excessive wear from "lifetime fills" used longer than they should have been in these systems. Like, you buy a used car with 100K miles on it, with the "lifetime fill" fluid still in the transmission. If you leave that fluid in there, it will last till 150K miles. If you change the fluid at 100K with "normal" fluid, then again at 150K, it will probably last till 200K, but if you swapped it out for boutique oil instead at this juncture, and change it "as needed" thereafter, (it will probably last longer than regular oil), then the transmission might last till 250K+ instead. So in this case, the fancy fluid might be "buying" an extra 50K miles by stalling the wear-and-tear of the transmission. YMMV...
 
PAO-based oils with healthy doses of AN or Esther are simply going to cost more. While there are great group III+ oils out there, some people want the absolute “best” chemistry at any cost.

It can be debated to the end of time whether the differences are enough to make a difference. Honestly I think people’s opinions often boil down to their income and personal spending preferences.

I personally try to approach things with an open mind and pay attention to the science. Based on my own research and experience, I personally think boutiques like Amsoil SS and HPL offer oils less prone to breakdown with higher solubility which are better able to prevent (or even clean) varnish, sludge, and buildup in piston rings. I also think people overestimate the ability of standard synthetic oils to stand up to longer intervals and prevent buildup.

Speaking very generally, and at risk getting flamed, I personally see no problems with 5,000-7500ish, 1yr mi intervals with standard GF-6 synthetic oils. When things get above about 7,500 mi or 1yr, that’s where I start suspecting boutique oils will show significantly better performance. A lot also depends on the engine and type of vehicle use.
 
I agree. You get what you pay for generally speaking. There is no magic here. I also think you're right about people's spending preferences. It's good there are options.
 
The question should be not which oil is better because the base blends and the quality does make a difference , but which oil will allow engine life beyond the ownership or value of the vehicle. For example If you coulf get 500,000 miles running Mobil 1 oil and still drive the car to the junk yard with the engine running good Or run Amsoil and drive the vehicle with the engine running good what would be better? Going back to dnewton3's post I guess thispost wasn't necessary.

 
The question should be not which oil is better because the base blends and the quality does make a difference , but which oil will allow engine life beyond the ownership or value of the vehicle. For example If you coulf get 500,000 miles running Mobil 1 oil and still drive the car to the junk yard with the engine running good Or run Amsoil and drive the vehicle with the engine running good what would be better? Going back to dnewton3's post I guess thispost wasn't necessary.
Engine health is not a binary.
 
I'm of the opinion that for most basic passenger cars that see normal daily driving, just use whatever FS that meets your car's specs that happens to be on sale at the time you need it. Change your oil @ 5,000 miles with a middle of the road filter and don't worry about it.
 
Some boutique oils are superior in several ways to the mainstream stuff found at Wal-Mart. The question becomes- does it need to be superior? What is the goal?

Most engines can last ~250K miles on a cost efficient oil found at WM that meets the OE requirements for the vehicle. Most cars will be 20-30 years old at this milage and be pretty well trashed otherwise, so there's not much point in trying to get more miles out of the engine. At this point the plastics are brittle, the interior is crumbling, the door seals are all falling off, the various exterior trims are flaking, the paint is peeling, rust is creeping in, the engine bay is full of dry rotted hoses and tubes ready to spring a leak if you look at them cross-eyed. At this point, most cars are ready to be retired to the recyclers. My Wife's car is 18 years old with "only" 146K miles on it. At the rate she accumulates miles the car will probably have about 225K miles on it when the car is 30 years old. I doubt we'll keep it that long... But the point is that, I don't need a fluid in this car to get it to a 350K mile finish line.

Now... if you have different plans for a car, like putting 25-50K miles per year on the vehicle in some sort of driving job, then suddenly, the wear and tear of the engine and driveline are going to take place at a much faster rate than the general rotting of the rest of the vehicle from the passage of time and exposure to sun/elements. In this case, it may be desirable to use fluids throughout the driveline that provide greater protection from wear and deposits, in an effort to extend the usable life of the engine to 350-500K miles. I would warn that there are some engines and transmissions that will fail much sooner for reasons that no oil can solve, so this is sort of a gamble.

Another example where "boutique" makes sense to me is for the purpose of extending drain intervals on transmissions, transfer cases, t-cases, and diffs, or to attempt to get some of these components to last to the ~200-250K finish line where they are known not to with ordinary maintenance (or no maintenance, as is often the case with "lifetime fluid" recommendations these days). Fluids changes in transmissions, t-cases, and diffs are generally more difficult than changing engine oil, so a more expensive fluid that can extend the interval pays for itself in convenience. I would also argue that a boutique oil may offer a way to "make up" for the excessive wear from "lifetime fills" used longer than they should have been in these systems. Like, you buy a used car with 100K miles on it, with the "lifetime fill" fluid still in the transmission. If you leave that fluid in there, it will last till 150K miles. If you change the fluid at 100K with "normal" fluid, then again at 150K, it will probably last till 200K, but if you swapped it out for boutique oil instead at this juncture, and change it "as needed" thereafter, (it will probably last longer than regular oil), then the transmission might last till 250K+ instead. So in this case, the fancy fluid might be "buying" an extra 50K miles by stalling the wear-and-tear of the transmission. YMMV...
My sister sold her 03’ Corolla s a few years back had something around 250-260k on the clock still going she knows the girl that bought it pushing 300k. Car seen Vegas - NY - SC. Has had nothing but castrol gtx and super tech 5w30 while she owned it. Believe my brother in law ran fram ecoguards, super tech or basic jobber quick lube filters.
 
Some boutique oils are superior in several ways to the mainstream stuff found at Wal-Mart. The question becomes- does it need to be superior? What is the goal?

Most engines can last ~250K miles on a cost efficient oil found at WM that meets the OE requirements for the vehicle. Most cars will be 20-30 years old at this milage and be pretty well trashed otherwise, so there's not much point in trying to get more miles out of the engine. At this point the plastics are brittle, the interior is crumbling, the door seals are all falling off, the various exterior trims are flaking, the paint is peeling, rust is creeping in, the engine bay is full of dry rotted hoses and tubes ready to spring a leak if you look at them cross-eyed. At this point, most cars are ready to be retired to the recyclers. My Wife's car is 18 years old with "only" 146K miles on it. At the rate she accumulates miles the car will probably have about 225K miles on it when the car is 30 years old. I doubt we'll keep it that long... But the point is that, I don't need a fluid in this car to get it to a 350K mile finish line.

Now... if you have different plans for a car, like putting 25-50K miles per year on the vehicle in some sort of driving job, then suddenly, the wear and tear of the engine and driveline are going to take place at a much faster rate than the general rotting of the rest of the vehicle from the passage of time and exposure to sun/elements. In this case, it may be desirable to use fluids throughout the driveline that provide greater protection from wear and deposits, in an effort to extend the usable life of the engine to 350-500K miles. I would warn that there are some engines and transmissions that will fail much sooner for reasons that no oil can solve, so this is sort of a gamble.

Another example where "boutique" makes sense to me is for the purpose of extending drain intervals on transmissions, transfer cases, t-cases, and diffs, or to attempt to get some of these components to last to the ~200-250K finish line where they are known not to with ordinary maintenance (or no maintenance, as is often the case with "lifetime fluid" recommendations these days). Fluids changes in transmissions, t-cases, and diffs are generally more difficult than changing engine oil, so a more expensive fluid that can extend the interval pays for itself in convenience. I would also argue that a boutique oil may offer a way to "make up" for the excessive wear from "lifetime fills" used longer than they should have been in these systems. Like, you buy a used car with 100K miles on it, with the "lifetime fill" fluid still in the transmission. If you leave that fluid in there, it will last till 150K miles. If you change the fluid at 100K with "normal" fluid, then again at 150K, it will probably last till 200K, but if you swapped it out for boutique oil instead at this juncture, and change it "as needed" thereafter, (it will probably last longer than regular oil), then the transmission might last till 250K+ instead. So in this case, the fancy fluid might be "buying" an extra 50K miles by stalling the wear-and-tear of the transmission. YMMV...
duplicate *delete*
 
Hi: I have done some reading here but I'm still not really clear.

A 5-quart jug of a premium brand like Mobil1 full synthetic is about $30 out the door with tax. Maybe from time to time you can get lucky/cheaper, but that's typically the best you can expect.

It looks like the lowest price for a really fancy brand like AMSOIL SCHAEFFER'S REDLINE is going to be more than double that.

Then there is ROYAL PURPLE, which as far as I can tell has no known or proven difference/superiority vs MOBIL1 etc other than fancy marketing and purple coloring added. A 5-qt jug of purple is about $10 more than MOBIL1 etc.

So does anyone want to tell me why the really fancy oils listed above (AMSOIL etc) are worth more than double the cost? Does anyone dispute that using MOBIL1 full synthetic with oil changes at reasonable intervals, like 5,000 mi, would cause virtually any modern engine to last 250k mi and maybe more?

If that's true, then why would I pay more than double for AMSOIL etc?

And am I wrong about ROYAL PURPLE?

Thanks!
Royal Purple API is different than the boutique products such as HMX and HPS.
 
My sister sold her 03’ Corolla s a few years back had something around 250-260k on the clock still going she knows the girl that bought it pushing 300k. Car seen Vegas - NY - SC. Has had nothing but castrol gtx and super tech 5w30 while she owned it. Believe my brother in law ran fram ecoguards, super tech or basic jobber quick lube filters.

Toyota is one of those car manufactures that dedicates a larger part of their design development and testing to longevity and durability through design than most car manufactures. There's nothing weird about seeing a 300K mile Corolla run on basic maintenance with a few more laps around the block still left in it. We all expect to see ~250-350K out of a Toyotas on the basic maintenance plan, where 150-250K is more likely for many other makes if they see nothing but basic oils at manufacture recommended intervals. The same "rule" applies, but you have to shift the needle for obvious differences in starting longevity. None of the cars in my garage are going to see 300K on the manufacture recommended oils and intervals.
 
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My sister sold her 03’ Corolla s a few years back had something around 250-260k on the clock still going she knows the girl that bought it pushing 300k. Car seen Vegas - NY - SC. Has had nothing but castrol gtx and super tech 5w30 while she owned it. Believe my brother in law ran fram ecoguards, super tech or basic jobber quick lube filters.
Daughter has a 2010 corolla with 309K miles. I’ve done it when she is down here and there, mostly quick lube places every 5K ish miles. Change the oil and other fluids and will keep going
 
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Toyotas are certainly great cars. Strikes me that modern vehicles are so full of computers and gadgets that... The expensive electronic gadgets are going to break long before the drivetrain fails in a major way, assuming you hold up your end of the deal by using quality fluids and reasonable service intervals.
 
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