Reason NOT to use Amsoil

[HondaMan]

You need to pick the oil that will give you the best wear protection IMO.

That oil will depend on your application and how you drive.

I have stated before that too many people that I know use Amsoil and they love it.
Too many people I know also use Redline and love it.

Most of the world is using something other than Amsoil and Redline and they are doing pretty well given their consideration on the topic vs. most those on this board.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27


Amsoil is the only company which has come to my attention as going further and presenting deceptive information in the form of irrelevant but official sounding test results.

So no, it's not an Amsoil-hate thing, which is what I think you are asking. Amsoil has, however, dug itself a deeper hole to climb out of regarding my own personal trust in them.


Interesting care to elaborate a little more?

Thanks

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Interesting care to elaborate a little more?

How can you have missed this point?

Care to write up a defense of Amsoil using tests which are only appropriate for gear oils as one of the very pillars of their marketing campaign for engine oils? Why can't they present *relevant* tests as evidence, instead? That and their equivocation and excuse-making about their lack of independent certifications speaks volumes to the objective observer.

As such, I've reasonably formed a distrust of the makers of Amsoil, based upon the evidence at hand.

-Steve

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
So is this thread about reasons not to use Amsoil, or about whether Pablo and Gary are good people? Those are completely different issues.


I don't know. If the reps weren't good people, that might be a reason not to use Amsoil, since it's not customarily available at the corner gas station or parts store.

 

[Mokanic]

Based upon what I have seen from BP and XOM in the past in regards to their "synthetic" oils, I would trust Amsoil far more to produce and stand behind their products. Most of the animosity toward Amsoil comes as a result of some of the actions of a few of their independant dealers. I for one could not care less if an oil is API certified. Many oils that are certified have proven to be mediocre at best in their performance. I run some Amsoil and some Schaeffer oils and sleep very well at night. So do my engines...

 

[SteveSRT8]

As a LONG term Amsoil user in entire fleets I have bought tons of the stuff. Raised and killed dozens of motors on it.

NEVER had anything but exemplary performance. Those who imagine that API certification bestows some magic quality to their [censored] oil have a lot to learn.

I will say that given the current crop of synthetics out there Amsoil no longer enjoys vast superiority. But they still go in my two most expensive custom built motors!

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Interesting care to elaborate a little more?

How can you have missed this point?

Care to write up a defense of Amsoil using tests which are only appropriate for gear oils as one of the very pillars of their marketing campaign for engine oils? Why can't they present *relevant* tests as evidence, instead? That and their equivocation and excuse-making about their lack of independent certifications speaks volumes to the objective observer.

As such, I've reasonably formed a distrust of the makers of Amsoil, based upon the evidence at hand.

-Steve


The XL line is API certified and it just so happens that the XL line is there weakest oil. The reason they dont get there higher end oil certified is it gives them more flexibility to formulate there oils the way they see fit and the way they feel will provide the highest protection with no limiting restrictions required to meet API certification.


You are hung on this 4ball wear test for some reason. Even amsoil has stated it is NOT an accurate test and that it can be construed to favor one over the other. I find it really amusing that anybody could question the quality of amsoil's oils and lubes as a whole. Group IV and V base stocks along with strong add packs and high TBN makes for very stout high quality oil weather it has a stupid certification label on it or not.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Those who imagine that API certification bestows some magic quality to their [censored] oil have a lot to learn.


I have seen only a few instances where people actually think API certification makes an oil better vs any oil without it. I agree it does not make an oil magical but by the same token it does assure the oil meets at least minimal standards. Without it you have to take the word of the oil company and that may not be a good thing with certain ones.

What I see is people talking about it being required for warranty and if it is NOT API certified it should not be used if the mfg calls for one( which they all do ). I don't believe that to be misguided thinking. Based on my experience working in dealer service I know how seriously car mfg's take that "IF" a problem occurs where oil & maintenance comes into play.

If I have a vehicle that is under warranty and the mfg calls for an API certified oil I would be a fool not to use one. Doesn't mean that an oil like Amsoil SSO ot whatever you want to talk about is inferior for not having it necessarily. Just means you have to takke the word of the mfg that it meets or exceeds the API standard.

In this particular topic the OP has a new vehicle that is under warranty. He needs to use an API Cetified oil with the Starburst. The only oil from Amsoil that meets that requirement in the weight he needs is the XL line. There is also the time frame limits set by the car mfg( as I recall this is a new GM so an OLM is involved ). The OP talked about 1 year and 25K OCI's so that too would be a mistake.

Anyone who thinks API certiification when called for can be ignored has a lot to learn about mfg's and warranty.

 

[buster]

Quote:
I have seen only a few instances where people actually think API certification makes an oil better vs any oil without it. I agree it does not make an oil magical but by the same token it does assure the oil meets at least minimal standards. Without it you have to take the word of the oil company and that may not be a good thing with certain ones.


Exactly. People knock the API etc, but meeting the API standards ensures you are getting a quality oil. Otherwise, it's up the blender and how much you trust them. Look at some of Amsoil's testing over the years of certain small boutique brands, they don't all perform all that well!

PU/Mobil 1/Synpower are all API and will outperform most boutique brands.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: buster


PU/Mobil 1/Synpower are all API and will outperform most boutique brands.


I will have to disagree on that as a broad generalized statement.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Those who imagine that API certification bestows some magic quality to their [censored] oil have a lot to learn.


I have seen only a few instances where people actually think API certification makes an oil better vs any oil without it. I agree it does not make an oil magical but by the same token it does assure the oil meets at least minimal standards. Without it you have to take the word of the oil company and that may not be a good thing with certain ones.

What I see is people talking about it being required for warranty and if it is NOT API certified it should not be used if the mfg calls for one( which they all do ). I don't believe that to be misguided thinking. Based on my experience working in dealer service I know how seriously car mfg's take that "IF" a problem occurs where oil & maintenance comes into play.

If I have a vehicle that is under warranty and the mfg calls for an API certified oil I would be a fool not to use one. Doesn't mean that an oil like Amsoil SSO ot whatever you want to talk about is inferior for not having it necessarily. Just means you have to takke the word of the mfg that it meets or exceeds the API standard.

In this particular topic the OP has a new vehicle that is under warranty. He needs to use an API Cetified oil with the Starburst. The only oil from Amsoil that meets that requirement in the weight he needs is the XL line. There is also the time frame limits set by the car mfg( as I recall this is a new GM so an OLM is involved ). The OP talked about 1 year and 25K OCI's so that too would be a mistake.

Anyone who thinks API certiification when called for can be ignored has a lot to learn about mfg's and warranty.


I bet most people dont think about saving there oil change receipts so down the line if they have a problem they wont be able to prove they changed the oil according to recommendations so the whole API thing is a moot point on that front. I know I change my own oil and do not save receipts. Our 07 2500HD and my 07 Yukon are both under warranty.

 

[badnews]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Those who imagine that API certification bestows some magic quality to their [censored] oil have a lot to learn.


I have seen only a few instances where people actually think API certification makes an oil better vs any oil without it. I agree it does not make an oil magical but by the same token it does assure the oil meets at least minimal standards. Without it you have to take the word of the oil company and that may not be a good thing with certain ones.

What I see is people talking about it being required for warranty and if it is NOT API certified it should not be used if the mfg calls for one( which they all do ). I don't believe that to be misguided thinking. Based on my experience working in dealer service I know how seriously car mfg's take that "IF" a problem occurs where oil & maintenance comes into play.

If I have a vehicle that is under warranty and the mfg calls for an API certified oil I would be a fool not to use one. Doesn't mean that an oil like Amsoil SSO ot whatever you want to talk about is inferior for not having it necessarily. Just means you have to takke the word of the mfg that it meets or exceeds the API standard.

In this particular topic the OP has a new vehicle that is under warranty. He needs to use an API Cetified oil with the Starburst. The only oil from Amsoil that meets that requirement in the weight he needs is the XL line. There is also the time frame limits set by the car mfg( as I recall this is a new GM so an OLM is involved ). The OP talked about 1 year and 25K OCI's so that too would be a mistake.

Anyone who thinks API certiification when called for can be ignored has a lot to learn about mfg's and warranty.


Really many , many , many , others have stated that unless the oil comes out in clumps ... the question will never come up.

That is my experience also .

Almost to a 100 percent factor oil never really plays a hand in equipment failure

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: badnews
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


Those who imagine that API certification bestows some magic quality to their [censored] oil have a lot to learn.


I have seen only a few instances where people actually think API certification makes an oil better vs any oil without it. I agree it does not make an oil magical but by the same token it does assure the oil meets at least minimal standards. Without it you have to take the word of the oil company and that may not be a good thing with certain ones.

What I see is people talking about it being required for warranty and if it is NOT API certified it should not be used if the mfg calls for one( which they all do ). I don't believe that to be misguided thinking. Based on my experience working in dealer service I know how seriously car mfg's take that "IF" a problem occurs where oil & maintenance comes into play.

If I have a vehicle that is under warranty and the mfg calls for an API certified oil I would be a fool not to use one. Doesn't mean that an oil like Amsoil SSO ot whatever you want to talk about is inferior for not having it necessarily. Just means you have to takke the word of the mfg that it meets or exceeds the API standard.

In this particular topic the OP has a new vehicle that is under warranty. He needs to use an API Cetified oil with the Starburst. The only oil from Amsoil that meets that requirement in the weight he needs is the XL line. There is also the time frame limits set by the car mfg( as I recall this is a new GM so an OLM is involved ). The OP talked about 1 year and 25K OCI's so that too would be a mistake.

Anyone who thinks API certiification when called for can be ignored has a lot to learn about mfg's and warranty.


Really many , many , many , others have stated that unless the oil comes out in clumps ... the question will never come up.

That is my experience also .

Almost to a 100 percent factor oil never really plays a hand in equipment failure


The question might or can come up with any internal engine issue. I have been involved with it as a dealership employee and also as a consumer. It does happen. Not always but it does.

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: badnews
Really many , many , many , others have stated that unless the oil comes out in clumps ... the question will never come up.

You claim to be speaking for many, many others. And yet when I asked the question in this forum recently, on the balance I got very different answers.

Having a car under warranty is probably the best reason to avoid most Amsoil products.

Edit: Lest I be labeled "anti-Amsoil", this would apply to any manufacturer which eschews 3rd party certifications. Which I suppose would include many boutique oils. So if I'm to be labeled anything, let it be "anti-boutique".

 

[SteveSRT8]

Hahahaha, this is getting almost funny. This place is a trip sometimes.

It would seem obvious that if you're under warranty you have to play ball with the factory's recommendations. But someone just HAD to say it! New title: "Captain Obvious"?

But I will repeat, anyone who thinks API certification bestows magic or credibility to your oil is dreaming. Do some of you really live behind those fences all your lives? Get out some, break a rule! OMG!

Those of us with more than one or two cars, and those of us who depend on those vehicles for our income, will continue to choose the best oil that keeps our equipment running.

A quick anecdote: my driveability specialist was working on one of my service vans helping me with an erratic idle issue and could not believe it had over 400k miles on it. "This motor is mechanically silent!" was his comment.

Born and raised on SSO! Changed via OLM. Many more just like it. Hope they never find out my oil ain't properly certified!

Just remember that most of the people you see here bashing Amsoil don't use it. So what do they really know about it?

 

[Y_K]

My butler.. errgh my driveability specialist would not care about OLM if it were SSO

 

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
But I will repeat, anyone who thinks API certification bestows magic or credibility to your oil is dreaming.

API/ILSAC certification means that an oil adheres to a very well defined specification, backed by its performance in a suite of well defined tests.

API/ILSAC certification bestows exactly that credibility upon a certified oil.

Manufacturers who do not submit their products for 3rd party certification have only their own marketing claims and the anecdotal evidence of people who claim to have used it, usually word of mouth and not backed by any testing which could be considered at all rigorous.

Every major auto manufacturer makes oil recommendations based upon either API or ACEA standards. (Are there any exceptions?) Their engineers have enough confidence in the standards to base requirements for expensive warranty service upon them. How many make recommendations based upon the marketing or anecdotal claims of the makers or users of boutique oils, including Amsoil? None, I believe. (Are there any exceptions at all?)

When it comes to what does and does not confer credibility upon an oil, you seem confused.

-Steve

 

[SteveSRT8]

No you simply inferred that.

It's your right. But it doesn't indicate anything except your bias against an oil that doesn't carry your beloved stamp of approval. I'm sure you didn't even read the fine print.

From API website:

All samples undergo elemental analysis, viscosity at 100°C, and high-temperature/high-shear testing. They MAY also be tested for cold cranking, pumpability, volatility, gelation, foaming, filterability, flash point, and shear stability. Product packages are checked to make sure they correctly display the API Marks and carry product trace codes. A number of oils also undergo actual industry engine sequence testing for oxidation, deposits, sludge, varnish, and wear.

So many of the oils have simply been very lightly tested. Most hardly at all! Hmmmm, seems like a highly credible system of certification to me! Confused?

But in my world there are MANY vehicles. Not just one or two.

All my anecdotal evidence is based on the dozens and dozens of service trucks we buy brand new and run into the ground. We have done this since 1970. Not including my personal stable, which runs from 4-15 or so vehicles, and runs from mild to wild.

This may be a significant number of cars and trucks, and our trucks are used as stationary power sources, meaning they may run all day long without a break. It's one of the hardest duty cycles imaginable and really breaks a motor oil down quickly. This MAY even constitute rigorous testing!!!

We no longer use Amsoil exclusively today due to its high cost and the other competitive oils on the market. But for someone who does not even use the product to criticize its quality seems a bit... confused?

Glad we're not as narrow minded as you. Or maybe you're just confused?

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Glad we're not as narrow minded as you.
Was it royal 'we'?
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Or maybe you're just confused?

You all are. Bias is different from case to case. Most are simply less squeamish than him. He is not able to separate the despicable Co he detests with passion from the wondrous miracle oil it sells.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No you simply inferred that.

It's your right. But it doesn't indicate anything except your bias against an oil that doesn't carry your beloved stamp of approval. I'm sure you didn't even read the fine print.

From API website:

All samples undergo elemental analysis, viscosity at 100°C, and high-temperature/high-shear testing. They MAY also be tested for cold cranking, pumpability, volatility, gelation, foaming, filterability, flash point, and shear stability. Product packages are checked to make sure they correctly display the API Marks and carry product trace codes. A number of oils also undergo actual industry engine sequence testing for oxidation, deposits, sludge, varnish, and wear.

So many of the oils have simply been very lightly tested. Most hardly at all! Hmmmm, seems like a highly credible system of certification to me! Confused?

But in my world there are MANY vehicles. Not just one or two.

All my anecdotal evidence is based on the dozens and dozens of service trucks we buy brand new and run into the ground. We have done this since 1970. Not including my personal stable, which runs from 4-15 or so vehicles, and runs from mild to wild.

This may be a significant number of cars and trucks, and our trucks are used as stationary power sources, meaning they may run all day long without a break. It's one of the hardest duty cycles imaginable and really breaks a motor oil down quickly. This MAY even constitute rigorous testing!!!

We no longer use Amsoil exclusively today due to its high cost and the other competitive oils on the market. But for someone who does not even use the product to criticize its quality seems a bit... confused?

Glad we're not as narrow minded as you. Or maybe you're just confused?


Or maybe he is just a troll looking to stir the pot?