Looks good to me. IMO, stick with what works!
Pic of valve cover area on Havoline
- Thread starter wlkjr1951
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Looks like a typical high milage 3.8 that has seen decent OCI with a decent oil. The Buick 3.8 is about as easy as they come when it comes to oil. I did two treatments of Auto-Rx and then a year latter I did MMO for 500 miles and my engine did not look too much better then his. Now my first treatment of LC cleaned all the varnish off the engine parts in less then 1200 miles.
The reason the valvetrain gets so stained with varnish is too fold on this design. First the rockers are aluminum and rather coarse at that so it stains easily. The 3.8 does not get much oil flow to it's head's and valvetrain as compared to an OHC engine. The lack of oil flow combined with high heat leads to vernish issues. The larger the volume of oil that flows over hot parts the less varnish you get on them from heat soaking espciealy after shut down.GM also has never really managed the fuel on these engines as well as they could and you often find them running excessively rich.
If you compare say a Honda V-Tec I4 to a buic 3.8 interms of oil volume delivered to the head it would like compareing a firehose to a garden hose. This does not even take into account airators that kick in above 6000RPM's on some engine to shower the valvetrain with a mist of oil in addition to the normal flow. Toyota's dreadful HO 1.8 desinged and built by Yamaha has such a system. Most import OHC engines have sunken area's in the head that act like oil pools so that even at start up the cam lobes are dipping in oil before they make any contact with cam followers etc.....
While this engine looks just fine especialy for the milage it could look even better with 3000 mile oil changes or synthetic oil. It is typical for buick 3.8 to go 300,000 or more miles excluideing models that had the stupid dupont nylon 33 upper intake manifolds. Some of the older 3.8's pre plastic intake manifold looked like the just rolled off the assembly line with 300,000 miles on them.
While varnish is not a huge issue like sludge is it is still not good. Varnish does lead to hot spots and can still damage seals.
P.S. How is the oil pressure and the water pump? You are right in the area that you might start getting timeing chain,water pump or oil pump issues so keep an eye on those!
The reason the valvetrain gets so stained with varnish is too fold on this design. First the rockers are aluminum and rather coarse at that so it stains easily. The 3.8 does not get much oil flow to it's head's and valvetrain as compared to an OHC engine. The lack of oil flow combined with high heat leads to vernish issues. The larger the volume of oil that flows over hot parts the less varnish you get on them from heat soaking espciealy after shut down.GM also has never really managed the fuel on these engines as well as they could and you often find them running excessively rich.
If you compare say a Honda V-Tec I4 to a buic 3.8 interms of oil volume delivered to the head it would like compareing a firehose to a garden hose. This does not even take into account airators that kick in above 6000RPM's on some engine to shower the valvetrain with a mist of oil in addition to the normal flow. Toyota's dreadful HO 1.8 desinged and built by Yamaha has such a system. Most import OHC engines have sunken area's in the head that act like oil pools so that even at start up the cam lobes are dipping in oil before they make any contact with cam followers etc.....
While this engine looks just fine especialy for the milage it could look even better with 3000 mile oil changes or synthetic oil. It is typical for buick 3.8 to go 300,000 or more miles excluideing models that had the stupid dupont nylon 33 upper intake manifolds. Some of the older 3.8's pre plastic intake manifold looked like the just rolled off the assembly line with 300,000 miles on them.
While varnish is not a huge issue like sludge is it is still not good. Varnish does lead to hot spots and can still damage seals.
P.S. How is the oil pressure and the water pump? You are right in the area that you might start getting timeing chain,water pump or oil pump issues so keep an eye on those!
I was curious, for comparison, what a badly sludged engine looks like. I did some Google Image Searching and
I take it that we're looking at a 3.8 right?
MAN,GM can sure build an engine! That Havoline seems to be a perfect match for your engine and driving style. I know it does an outstanding job in my 5.3. Good work!
MAN,GM can sure build an engine! That Havoline seems to be a perfect match for your engine and driving style. I know it does an outstanding job in my 5.3. Good work!
That engine does look like one rugged piece. I love a pushrod V-engine. Overhead cam in these engines is not an improvement for many reasons.
I would be very concerned about the varnishing. That stuff will deposit in the lifters and other places that will cause you great misery. It is also an indication of a problem brewing. Check for fuel in the oil, and blowby with the oil cap off at idle.
You might want to clean the rings and use the Lube Control to get rid of the varnish at this point. As an engine ages the cleanliness problem intensifies. A synth-blend with high TBN would be better for long life than the Havoline. Also use something continuously in the gas to keep everything lubed and clean.
I would be very concerned about the varnishing. That stuff will deposit in the lifters and other places that will cause you great misery. It is also an indication of a problem brewing. Check for fuel in the oil, and blowby with the oil cap off at idle.
You might want to clean the rings and use the Lube Control to get rid of the varnish at this point. As an engine ages the cleanliness problem intensifies. A synth-blend with high TBN would be better for long life than the Havoline. Also use something continuously in the gas to keep everything lubed and clean.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1230050quote:
Originally posted by bender:
I was curious, for comparison, what a badly sludged engine looks like. I did some Google Image Searching andman, what a nightmare. I had no idea. I don't necessarily buy the 3K OCI but after seeing some pics of sludged up engines, I might go back!
I think it was more like 17,000 miles not 7,000 miles as stated.
This is simply staining due to the exposure of heat and many different additives in an oil formulation that changed ownership from Texaco to Equilon to Chevron over the last 8 years.
Anyone who disagrees should look up the technical definition of varnish!
WLKjr1951 - Congrats on making 300K on this engine and don't let anyone try to minimize your accomplishment!
Do you have pictures of your engine at this mileage?
I would wanna see how a similar engine would look at that mileage.
BTW, does anyone have pictures of the same engines running on the synthetics.
I would expect a much cleaner engine, even with lots of miles on it.
That's purdy
wow... I'm hoping my engine looks that clean. Do tell bout that picture!! year, miles, engine, oil used, etc...
What's purdy?
Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term.
00 Ford Focus
70K mi
2.0L Zetec
Redline oil (10w-30 and 5w-30 for 60K mi)
Even though 70K miles doesn't sound that much, the last 10K mi were 90% short trips.
I don't put a premium on the way the engine looks.
It's not of the highest priority to me.
I just switched to GC and expect it to continue to perform similarly to RL and keep as clean as it is at the 140K or 240K mi marks if I choose to keep the car that long.
Again I've seen delivery vans on nothing but Jiffy Lube dino at 5K intervals, still looking pretty clean at 250K miles.
Sludge or thick varnish doesn't belong in the modern engine, regardless of mileage.
The older engines (design) is a different story.
But this is where the synthetics can help a lot.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term.
00 Ford Focus
70K mi
2.0L Zetec
Redline oil (10w-30 and 5w-30 for 60K mi)
Even though 70K miles doesn't sound that much, the last 10K mi were 90% short trips.
I don't put a premium on the way the engine looks.
It's not of the highest priority to me.
I just switched to GC and expect it to continue to perform similarly to RL and keep as clean as it is at the 140K or 240K mi marks if I choose to keep the car that long.
Again I've seen delivery vans on nothing but Jiffy Lube dino at 5K intervals, still looking pretty clean at 250K miles.
Sludge or thick varnish doesn't belong in the modern engine, regardless of mileage.
The older engines (design) is a different story.
But this is where the synthetics can help a lot.
What intervals do you run Redline at? That engine looks very nice.
I'll keep your offer in mind when I hit ~70k (bout taking off the valve cover) - rather pay a BITOG'er than a greedy dealer. thx
I'll keep your offer in mind when I hit ~70k (bout taking off the valve cover) - rather pay a BITOG'er than a greedy dealer. thx
The reason I took the cover off was to change the cover gasket.
It started to sip some oil through, just enough to get the surrounding area a little wet.
235K miles.
Hmm...
The only vehicles I've seen with that kind of mileage accumulated within such a short period of time were delivery vans.
It started to sip some oil through, just enough to get the surrounding area a little wet.
235K miles.
Hmm...
The only vehicles I've seen with that kind of mileage accumulated within such a short period of time were delivery vans.
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