Under valve cover & sump pictures - 2014 Dodge Durango 174,000 miles total, 34,000 miles on HPL HDEO 5w-20

[wwillson]

After some discussions with @dnewton3 I have decided that I will continue to run this oil. The ultimate question is, how far can this oil be run before it reaches an ultimate condemnation and what will that condemnation point be? Some possible condemnation points could be:

1. Varnish deposits
2. High viscosity from oxidative thickening
3. Low TBN
4. Rapidly increasing wear metals

I will take mileage interval pictures of the valve train to check for deposits and send in another oil sample to be tested.

[edit Jan 7, 2024] - The oil has been changed see this post:https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...0-miles-on-hpl-hdeo-5w-20.377792/post-6745783

Previous UOA:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-300-miles-on-oil-173-000-miles-total.377756/

[edit Jan 7, 2024]
174k miles sump pictures taken after oil is drained

+14

Dodge Durango 3.6L 174k miles total 34k miles on oil - sump pictures

• wwillson
• Jan 7, 2024
• 23

Bore scope inserted through drain plug hole taking a look around.

174k miles under valve cover pictures. I took these pictures about 5 minutes after engine shutdown, so there is still a lot of oil that hasn't run off the surfaces.

+13

Dodge Durango 3.6L 174k miles total 34k miles on oil - under valve cover pictures

• wwillson
• Jan 5, 2024
• 22

164k miles under valve cover pictures:

Under valve cover pictures - Dodge Durango 164,000 miles total

• wwillson
• Oct 3, 2023
• 8
• 1

This engine has been running HPL 5w-20 HDEO for 52,000 miles

 

[Kira]

It couldn't be any cleaner.

 

[dnewton3]

Oh, the horrors of using HPL for 33k miles ...
Essentially spotless, as expected.

Your Honor, I do hereby move that the OCI be deferred until such time that it actually matters, at a date yet to be determined by means of quantifiable data and verifiable cause.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

looks good

 

[priler]

Nice...now this is the proper way.

 

[wemay]

Looks fantastic

 

[cptbarkey]

This might make a good case study for @High Performance Lubricants to take note of. Subscribed as always.

 

[The Critic]

Considering how many oil burning Toyota engines I have seen with stuck rings and scored walls, but perfectly clean valvetrains, I personally find valvetrain photos to be of limited value. This isn't a knock on anyone, but rather, I don't think the valvetrain photos tell us very much.

 

[dumkid]

Considering how many oil burning Toyota engines I have seen with stuck rings and scored walls, but perfectly clean valvetrains, I personally find valvetrain photos to be of limited value. This isn't a knock on anyone, but rather, I don't think the valvetrain photos tell us very much.

But it's hpl. It doesn't ever coke up or get dirty.

Ban this guy he's a heretic

 

[dnewton3]

Considering how many oil burning Toyota engines I have seen with stuck rings and scored walls, but perfectly clean valvetrains, I personally find valvetrain photos to be of limited value. This isn't a knock on anyone, but rather, I don't think the valvetrain photos tell us very much.

Your comment isn't without merit, but it's misplaced. What needs to be taken into account is that not all engine series have the same issues. In the case of the 3.6L in the Durango, it's not known for piston/ring issues. To be fair, wwillson could take some compression readings from the cylinders, but as the engine isn't known for this problem, it would likely be useless info. If the engine were burning oil, or losing fuel mileage, indicating something was wrong in an area unseen, then your recommendation might have merit. If the bores were scored, you'd think Fe and Cr would be showing up in the UOA. But no such concerns exist; there's no tell-tale sign or history to indicate as such. So the under valve cover photos are sufficient to track varnish, etc.

 

[pbm]

Are you (the OP) suggesting that a person could do 30K OCI's on HPL HDEO 5w20?

 

[wwillson]

Are you (the OP) suggesting that a person could do 30K OCI's on HPL HDEO 5w20?

I'm not suggesting that any engine in any application could safely run the HPL HDEO for extended drains similar mine. HPL HDEOs and PCMOs are formulated for extended drains, but you need data to show how far you can safely extend the drain interval. To extend to 30k+ blindly with no data would be silly.

 

[Thermo1223]

I'm not suggesting that any engine in any application could safely run the HPL HDEO for extended drains similar mine. HPL HDEOs and PCMOs are formulated for extended drains, but you need data to show how far you can safely extend the drain interval. To extend to 30k+ blindly with no data would be silly.

I'm sampling at 10k on the Tiguan and going from there since it had no issue going that far on OEM oil.

 

[Brons2]

I've never had my valve covers off but if I did, I would want my engine's innards to look like that.

 

[Propflux01]

Since it appears a borescope was used to look at the valve train perhaps pulling a couple of spark plugs and taking a look inside would quell the fears of cylinder and piston condition.

 

[vpr5703]

Man this is insane. I pulled 10k OCIs on my old Fusion per Ford and that made me a little itchy. 34k in bonkers. Upper end still looks great, though. I second @Propflux01 's request about cylinder/piston pictures just to see what those look like as well.

 

[wwillson]

Since it appears a borescope was used to look at the valve train perhaps pulling a couple of spark plugs and taking a look inside would quell the fears of cylinder and piston condition.

Pulling the plugs on a Pentastar is not trivial.

You can find a few pictures I took while I had the spark plugs out a few weeks ago.

+50

Dodge Durango 3.6L oil filter/oil cooler housing, fuel injectors, spark plugs, coils changed

• wwillson
• Nov 11, 2023
• 59
• 2

 

[dumkid]

Pulling the plugs on a Pentastar is not trivial.

You can find a few pictures I took while I had the spark plugs out a few weeks ago.

+50

Dodge Durango 3.6L oil filter/oil cooler housing, fuel injectors, spark plugs, coils changed

• wwillson
• Nov 11, 2023
• 59
• 2

Dang that looks great

 

[High Performance Lubricants]

Wayne. I just want to say thank you for all the effort and detail on this project. To go this distance on an engine without any meaningful consumption is one of the hardest things for the oil to pull off as you never have a chance to sweeten the oil in the sump. Your results are great and demonstrates what we strive to produce for results. I don’t have the personal patience myself to perform such a detailed project. Well done!

David

 

[nicholas]

Considering how many oil burning Toyota engines I have seen with stuck rings and scored walls, but perfectly clean valvetrains, I personally find valvetrain photos to be of limited value. This isn't a knock on anyone, but rather, I don't think the valvetrain photos tell us very much.

Totally agree