Dodge Durango 3.6L - second run of HPL 5w-20 - 18,700 miles on oil - filter pictures at 6,700 mile change interval run from 152,000-158,700 miles

[wwillson]

The first filter from this second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20 is here:

Dodge Durango 3.6L - second run of HPL 5w-20 - 5,000 miles on oil - filter pictures at 5,000 mile change interval

Below are pictures of the oil and filter run for 5,000 miles. This is my second run of HPL 5w-20 HDEO in my 3.6L Durango. The total miles on HPL oil is now 33,500 miles. Because the filter was so loaded with deposits being cleaned during my first run of HPL, I decided to change the filter every...

bobistheoilguy.com

The second filter from this second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20 is here:

Dodge Durango 3.6L - second run of HPL 5w-20 - 12,000 miles on oil - filter pictures at 5,000 mile change interval run from 147,000 - 152,000 miles

The first filter from this second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20 is here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-second-run-of-hpl-5w-20-5-000-miles-on-oil-filter-pictures-at-5-000-mile-change-interval.359054/ I have stated that I will change the filter every 5,000 miles until the...

bobistheoilguy.com

The pictures below are from the third filter from the second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20. The oil now has accumulated 18,700 miles of use. HPL HDEO 5w-20 has been in use for a total of 47,100 miles, again this is the second run. The UOA has been sent in and the results will be posted when I get them back.

This is the first time I have observed no carbon or debris in the filter since installing HPL oil 47,000 miles ago. The last filter (second post above) had a considerable amount of carbonaceous material. Why did the first filter have some, but not much trapped material, the second had a lot, and the third nothing visible? I don't know and can't explain it. However, there was one difference in driving style during the second filter run. The Durango sat for three months without being started. How can that explain the large amount of trapped carbonaceous material? I was hoping you could explain it

The amount is sparkly metal flakes in the filter was usual. The camera doesn't capture them, but to the naked eye, they are highly visible in the bright sunlight.

At this point I believe it will be safe to change the filter at 10,000 mile intervals and will pull the filter at 5,000 intervals and carefully take a peak to see if there is any trapped material. This is a cartridge filter that retains no oil while sitting, so removing it and looking between the pleats is simple.

 

[LazyDog]

How far do you intend to go on the same oil w/ just filter changes???

 

[spasm3]

That looks much cleaner that the first ones! Looking forward to the uoa!

 

[wwillson]

How far do you intent to go on the same oil w/ just filter changes???

Until the UOA says I should change it. Factors will be TBN, oxidation, viscosity, contaminants, and/or wear metals.

 

[Astro14]

So much for those who theorized that the HPL was the source of that carbonaceous material...

 

[Brian123]

Until the UOA says I should change it. Factors will be TBN, oxidation, viscosity, contaminants, and/or wear metals.

wwilson, is this a vehicle you bought brand new?
Could you clarify what oil you used before HPL and what your OCI's were?

 

[wwillson]

wwilson, is this a vehicle you bought brand new?

Yes

Could you clarify what oil you used before HPL and what your OCI's were?

From new to 112,000 miles, I ran 0w-30 syn PCMO in the winter and 10w-30 syn blend HDMO in the summer. No oil changes more than 8,000 miles. Take some time to let that settle in.

 

[wpod]

So much for those who theorized that the HPL was the source of that carbonaceous material...

I would have to guess that extended oil change intervals allowed the build up of [debris]

 

[wwillson]

I would have to guess that extended oil change intervals allowed the build up of [debris]

There were no extended OCIs before I started using HPL. See my post above yours.

 

[53' Stude]

I would have to guess that extended oil change intervals allowed the build up of [debris]

I’d say the prior oils didn’t do a good enough job of cleaning/keeping things clean. Just a dumb mechanics thoughts

 

[OVERKILL]

I’d say the prior oils didn’t do a good enough job of cleaning/keeping thins clean. Just a dumb mechanics thoughts

Yes, exactly. None of the tests, sequences or approvals require absolute cleanliness, just a reasonable amount of deposit prevention.

 

[nicholas]

The first filter from this second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20 is here:

Dodge Durango 3.6L - second run of HPL 5w-20 - 5,000 miles on oil - filter pictures at 5,000 mile change interval

Below are pictures of the oil and filter run for 5,000 miles. This is my second run of HPL 5w-20 HDEO in my 3.6L Durango. The total miles on HPL oil is now 33,500 miles. Because the filter was so loaded with deposits being cleaned during my first run of HPL, I decided to change the filter every...

bobistheoilguy.com

The second filter from this second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20 is here:

Dodge Durango 3.6L - second run of HPL 5w-20 - 12,000 miles on oil - filter pictures at 5,000 mile change interval run from 147,000 - 152,000 miles

The first filter from this second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20 is here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-second-run-of-hpl-5w-20-5-000-miles-on-oil-filter-pictures-at-5-000-mile-change-interval.359054/ I have stated that I will change the filter every 5,000 miles until the...

bobistheoilguy.com

The pictures below are from the third filter from the second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20. The oil now has accumulated 18,700 miles of use. HPL HDEO 5w-20 has been in use for a total of 47,100 miles, again this is the second run. The UOA has been sent in and the results will be posted when I get them back.

This is the first time I have observed no carbon or debris in the filter since installing HPL oil 47,000 miles ago. The last filter (second post above) had a considerable amount of carbonaceous material. Why did the first filter have some, but not much trapped material, the second had a lot, and the third nothing visible? I don't know and can't explain it. However, there was one difference in driving style during the second filter run. The Durango sat for three months without being started. How can that explain the large amount of trapped carbonaceous material? I was hoping you could explain it

The amount is sparkly metal flakes in the filter was usual. The camera doesn't capture them, but to the naked eye, they are highly visible in the bright sunlight.

At this point I believe it will be safe to change the filter at 10,000 mile intervals and will pull the filter at 5,000 intervals and carefully take a peak to see if there is any trapped material. This is a cartridge filter that retains no oil while sitting, so removing it and looking between the pleats is simple.

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Move along folks....nothing to see here

 

[racer12306]

Definitely makes you think.

Thank you for investing in the process. I don’t think anyone has as much well documented data with this change over.

 

[wwillson]

Definitely makes you think.

Thank you for investing in the process. I don’t think anyone has as much well documented data with this change over.

I like data and it's been fun partaking.

 

[53' Stude]

Definitely makes you think.

Thank you for investing in the process. I don’t think anyone has as much well documented data with this change over.

I’ll 2nd this

 

[53' Stude]

Yes, exactly. None of the tests, sequences or approvals require absolute cleanliness, just a reasonable amount of deposit prevention.

Very good comrade. I’m still learning from you. Thank You

 

[weaponoffreedom]

How far do you intent to go on the same oil w/ just filter changes???

I read somewhere online a while back (which proves its truth, LOL) that the filter change and top off method had merit, it that the ad pack was "refreshed" by the new oil. I am not sure about it though. I suppose one variable would be how the filter was oriented, so that when changed you had to add a quart or so.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Until the UOA says I should change it. Factors will be TBN, oxidation, viscosity, contaminants, and/or wear metals.

And what do you intend to prove? Honest question. Just becuase the engine ran X miles between those changes does not mean that it will be the same on later changes. Is it just a test of the oil?

 

[wwillson]

I read somewhere online a while back (which proves its truth, LOL) that the filter change and top off method had merit, it that the ad pack was "refreshed" by the new oil. I am not sure about it though. I suppose one variable would be how the filter was oriented, so that when changed you had to add a quart or so.

Yes, if you add top-off oil, you will see an increase in TBN for example. I have only added 1/4 quart (one cup) of make-up oil to replace the three samples that I've pulled out. 1/4 quart is not much (3%) in a 6.5 quart sump, so we won't see much difference in this case. Remember, changing the filter in the Pentastar drains no oil.

 

[wwillson]

And what do you intend to prove? Honest question. Just because the engine ran X miles between those changes does not mean that it will be the same on later changes. Is it just a test of the oil?

It's pretty simple. I see no sense in draining oil that is capable of more use. I am also a perpetual experimenter, so I experiment within rational bounds. We can see in the UOAs if the oil is spent and needs to be change, else it can continue in service.

My goal is to not waste oil, not change it so often (it's not as much fun as it used to be), and to learn with real data about how far this oil can allow me to safely extend change intervals. To me there is little risk in sensibly extending the OCIs.

I am also using the knowledge gained about HPL's extended drain capabilities to extend drain intervals on our farm machinery with very large sumps. I now trust HPL enough to extend OCIs on very expensive agricultural engines, which saves about $400 each year on each machine compared to rotely changing the oil every year or at 100 hours like we used to. Take $400x10/yr and pretty soon you're talking real money.