Dodge Durango 3.6L - second run of HPL 5w-20 - 28k miles on oil - filter pictures at 9.3k miles run from 158.7k-168k miles

[wwillson]

Previous filter is here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...terval-run-from-152-000-158-700-miles.370067/

The 28k mile UOA is available here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-000-miles-on-oil-168-000-miles-total.375625/

The pictures below are from the fourth filter from the second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20. The oil now has accumulated 28,000 miles of use. HPL HDEO 5w-20 has been in use for a total of 56,400 miles, again this is the second oil run. This was a longer filter duration than I have done in the last couple filter changes. I thought the cleaning was done, but there is some black carbon in the filter. The quantity of carbon chunks in the filter is small, but they are clearly visible.

 

[dnewton3]

Given how clean it appeared under the valve covers, I wonder where the particulate is coming from?

 

[wwillson]

Given how clean it appeared under the valve covers, I wonder where the particulate is coming from?

It's my speculation, but the only place to me that makes sense is the ring lands and groves.

 

[JoelB]

I know you've gone over this before but could you give a quick explanation of how you decided to go with the HDEO vs the PCMO or the Euro oil?

 

[wwillson]

I know you've gone over this before but could you give a quick explanation of how you decided to go with the HDEO vs the PCMO or the Euro oil?

I like diesel oils for the enhanced detergents and dispersants.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Previous filter is here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...terval-run-from-152-000-158-700-miles.370067/

The 28k mile UOA is available here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-000-miles-on-oil-168-000-miles-total.375625/

The pictures below are from the fourth filter from the second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20. The oil now has accumulated 28,000 miles of use. HPL HDEO 5w-20 has been in use for a total of 56,400 miles, again this is the second oil run. This was a longer filter duration than I have done in the last couple filter changes. I thought the cleaning was done, but there is some black carbon in the filter. The quantity of carbon chunks in the filter is small, but they are clearly visible.

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Per your UOA on this run the viscosity increased to a 30 grade which makes me wonder if these deposits are from oxidative thickening.

 

[buster]

Per your UOA on this run the viscosity increased to a 30 grade which makes me wonder if these deposits are from oxidative thickening.

Hard to say.

I could see it being from pistons, but that seems like an awful lot of carbon. However, HPL is known to have exceptional solvency. I hope it's not from oxidation/thickening. If it is, the solvency of HPL and strong detergent/dispersant package is keeping it from clinging to surfaces and the filter is catching it. My .02.

I'm going to do a filter inspection after 5k miles of HPL. With 20k on engine, and having only used M1/Amsoil I'm curious what I will find. I am pretty certain it will show nothing.

 

[OVERKILL]

Hard to say.

I could see it being from pistons, but that seems like an awful lot of carbon. However, HPL is known to have exceptional solvency. I hope it's not from oxidation/thickening. If it is, the solvency of HPL and strong detergent/dispersant package is keeping it from clinging to surfaces and the filter is catching it. My .02.

I'm going to do a filter inspection after 5k miles of HPL. With 20k on engine, and having only used M1/Amsoil I'm curious what I will find. I am pretty certain it will show nothing.

Big difference on my two vehicles due to what I believe is the considerable mileage disparity between them. Not much in th Jeep filter, lots in the truck.

 

[wwillson]

Per your UOA on this run the viscosity increased to a 30 grade which makes me wonder if these deposits are from oxidative thickening.

If deposits were happening from oxidative thickening, then we would see a coating of deposits inside the engine. When we look inside the engine, all of the images show extreme cleanliness. We can through conjecture say the the black carbon captured in the oil filter is from a hard deposit that still being liberated by the ANs and Esters in the HPL.

Recent under valve cover photos here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-total-52-000-miles-on-hpl-hdeo-5w-20.374342/

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

If deposits were happening from oxidative thickening, then we would see a coating of deposits inside the engine. When we look inside the engine, all of the images show extreme cleanliness. We can through conjecture say the the black carbon captured in the oil filter is from a hard deposit that still being liberated by the ANs and Esters in the HPL.

Recent under valve cover photos here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-total-52-000-miles-on-hpl-hdeo-5w-20.374342/

Would we though if the oil keeps deposits in suspension? Unless I'm looking at filter media from two different vehicles it's rather odd that when using the same HPL oil filter media when from dirty to clean then back to dirty.

 

[wwillson]

Would we though if the oil keeps deposits in suspension? Unless I'm looking at filter media from two different vehicles it's rather odd that when using the same HPL oil filter media when from dirty to clean then back to dirty.

Remember that the most recent run was considerably longer than the previous filter run.

 

[buster]

The engine photos show a pristine engine. The only thing I can think of, which makes sense to me, is HPL is keeping any carbon-based buildup in suspension and the filter is capturing it. There are no signs of any varnish at all. From the photos it looks like a new engine.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Remember that the most recent run was considerably longer than the previous filter run.

Which is why I was thinking the longer run resulted in more oxidation (judging by the increase in viscosity). Did your initial short run of HPL also show a dirty filter?

 

[wwillson]

Which is why I was thinking the longer run resulted in more oxidation (judging by the increase in viscosity). Did your initial short run of HPL also show a dirty filter?

Where have you been?

This post has pictures of the first filter change with > 21k miles on the filter. Total boneheaded move by me not to change the filter earlier.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-hpl-5w-20-21-079-miles-on-oil.344904/

I left breadcrumbs so you can follow my posts about this topic all the way back to the beginning.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Where have you been?

This post has pictures of the first filter change with > 21k miles on the filter. Total boneheaded move by me not to change the filter earlier.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-hpl-5w-20-21-079-miles-on-oil.344904/

I left breadcrumbs so you can follow my posts about this topic all the way back to the beginning.

LOL.. I meant to type "Didn't" rather than "Did". I remember a "cleaner" filter between the initial and most recent correct?

 

[wwillson]

LOL.. I meant to type "Didn't" rather than "Did". I remember a "cleaner" filter between the initial and most recent correct?

Yes, in the first post is a link to the previous filter.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yes, in the first post is a link to the previous filter.

So let me ask what makes you think carbon deposit from the rings would appear in this filter rather than the last one?

 

[Kira]

I like diesel oils for the enhanced detergents and dispersants.

This is sort of relevant:
In brief, I bought a lawn tractor from our brother-in-law which may have seen a bit of neglect toward the end of his 6 year ownership.
The twist capped dipstick needed to be 'broken free' (as if it hadn't been checked in a while).

I selected Rotella 4 (conv. diesel 15W-40) as it's one of the approved grades for the Kawasaki FS730V engine.
I want the oil to clean whatever it can.

I'd love to open and post but I don't have a filter cutter and am not likely to buy one....although I think they're cool tools.

 

[MolaKule]

@wwillson @BMWTurboDzl

I don't think oxidative thickening is present.

My hypothesis is that some of the carbon that was left behind is being solubilized and turned into a thicker but suspended black oil that is contributing to the increased viscosity.

HPL uses some of the most advanced anti-oxidants and dispersants available.

 

[wwillson]

So let me ask what makes you think carbon deposit from the rings would appear in this filter rather than the last one?

My only explanation is the longer duration between filter changes and the possibility that I looked a bit harder this time.