Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 28,000 miles on oil - 168,000 miles total

[wwillson]

This sample was pulled from my 2014 Dodge Durango with a total of 168,000 miles and 28,000 miles on the oil. The oil is HPL's 5w-20 CK-4 based formula and has been run since Feb 9, 2022, about 21 months. The lab is Wearcheck. The usage on this 9,300 mile run was >75% high speed driving down the interstate. There was 2/3 quart of makeup oil. The PCV valve was changed and oil consumption returned to zero until the oil filter/cooler started to leak again (this is not my happy face). All of the fuel used for this 9,300 mile run between samples was E-85. The oil filter had been in use for 4,500 miles and it won't be changed until the oil gets changed. Fe wear rate for this 9,300 miles was 0.65ppm/1k miles. The TBN is still at 6 so plenty of alkalinity left. Viscosity has increased to 12.6, which is barely into the SAE 40 range (12.5-16.29). Corrected Si is only about 8ppm, because there is some Si in this virgin oil. I see no need to change the oil now, so I'll probably run it a few thousand more miles. The oxidation number is way off, so Wearcheck is going to run the sample again, I will update the table when I get new data.

[edit-Nov 7, 2023] Wearcheck ran the oxidation again and found a value of 64.1 (was 17.9), which makes much more sense. The table below has been updated.

We saw the cleaning power of this oil in this bore scope thread.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-total-52-000-miles-on-hpl-hdeo-5w-20.374342/

Previous OUA thread:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-20-18-700-miles-on-oil-158-700-total.370335/

PCV valve thread:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-pcv-valve-in-the-durango-3-6l.374501/

Sample Information
Sample Date	Feb 2020	Dec 2020	March 2021	August 2021	October 2021	February 2022	March 1, 2022	September 5, 2022	April 19, 2023	June 13, 2023	October 28, 2023
Machine Age miles	116,000	122,200	127,420	132,679	137,615	140,000	141,500	147,000	152,000	158,700	168,000
Oil Age miles	5,000	11,200	15,820	21,079	26,015	2,500	1,500	7,000	12,000	18,700	28,000
Filter Age miles	5,000	11,200	15,820	21,079	4,936	2,500	1,500	2,000	5,000	6,700	5,000
Oil Changed	no	no	no	no	yes	yes	yes	no	no	no	no
Filter Changed	no	no	no	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes
Brand	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL
Viscosity	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO
						new formula	new formula
Wear Metals
Iron	5	13	21	42	62	19	6	9	15	17	23
Chromium	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]2	2	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]1
Nickel	0	0	0	TD] [TD]0	0	TD] [TD]0	0	TD] [TD]TD]
Titanium	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]2	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]TD]
Silver	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]0	0	0
Aluminum	3	3	1	5	5	4	2	4	1	5	8
Lead	0	0	TD] [TD]1	TD] [TD]1	1	0	0	0	3
Copper	3	10	16	39	66	64	31	65	72	69	64
Tin	0	TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	0	0	TD]
Antimony	0	0	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Vanandium	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]TD]
Cadmium	0	0	0	TD] [TD]not reported	0	0	0	0	0	0
Additives
Boron	181	81	42	43	23	20	2	2	0	0	1
Barium	3	0	1	0	2	0	0	0	0	4	1
Molybdenum	523	521	500	518	545	535	492	548	600	590	494
Manganese	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]2	3	1	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD]
Magnesium	462	446	430	467	461	1078	1091	981	1158	1059	998
Calcium	3422	3237	3203	3379	3562	2812	2431	2458	2767	2645	2340
Phosphorus	788	777	760	754	802	1137	1094	1024	1095	1041	855
Zinc	948	924	884	949	988	1326	1176	1271	1411	1271	1129
Contaminants
Silicon	11	11	15	25	33	17	12	13	18	17	20
Sodium	4	4	5	8	8	4	0	3	5	4	16
Potassium	1	TD] [TD]2	3	4	1	0	2	2	3	4
Fuel %	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD]
Glycol	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG
Soot%	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0
Fluid Condition
TBN	12.3	7.3	5.05	3.985	2.85	12	16.8	10.8	9.28	8.11	6
Viscosity	8.8	9.1	9.4	9.56	10.6	9.2	9.4	10	10.4	11.6	12.6
Oxidation	5	15.3	22.5	24.1	31	45.3	0 (39.7)	12(51.7)	14.3(54.0)	21(60.7)	24.4(64.1)

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[dnewton3]

So far, nothing to worry about. The wear rates are very good. The uptick in Al and Pb may just be incidental; best to just stay the course and see where they fall next time.

The correlation between oxidation (pending verification) and vis increase may or may not be of interest, depending upon the results of the updated ox value.

You had been doing UOAs about every 6k"ish" miles, and then went 9k miles this time. Was that just a fluke or planned? As the OCI matures, I would recommend keeping an eye on it; perhaps every 5-6k miles.

This is exactly the kind of performance I'd expect out of HPL!


At some point, I'd think considering BP filtration would be an excellent move.

 

[OVERKILL]

Interesting that copper has sort of plateau'd.

Since it has gone up two grades, I'd be inclined to change it personally, just based on that fact (the oxidative thickening) but I understand your reluctance to, based on the health of the lubricant and remaining TBN.

 

[wwillson]

You had been doing UOAs about every 6k"ish" miles, and then went 9k miles this time. Was that just a fluke or planned?

I just didn't get around to sending a sample in.

At some point, I'd think considering BP filtration would be an excellent move.

Someone would really have to twist my arm to get me to install a by-pass setup.

 

[wwillson]

Since it has gone up two grades, I'd be inclined to change it personally, just based on that fact (the oxidative thickening) but I understand your reluctance to, based on the health of the lubricant and remaining TBN.

I just have to know how far this oil can go...

 

[LazyDog]

Hola My friend,

I got some good friends in Naperville. I'll be incline to change just like the comment from Overfill. If we get one those cold winters, I wonder what the oil will be at -10 below.

 

[twX]

Lead at 3 ppm seems like a statistically significant increase considering it's been 0-1 for the previous ten UOAs. I'm not sure if that should be concerning, but it'll be interesting to see if it's increased further at the next UOA.

 

[wwillson]

I'll be incline to change just like the comment from Overfill

Who?

If we get one those cold winters, I wonder what the oil will be at -10 below.

The garage never goes below 40F, so I'll never find out.

 

[Mewbs]

Interesting how wear materials measurements trend up and down on the same oil over time. I'd imagine how much measured deviation we would get as more of the same oil gets sampled overtime. Would it make a nice statistical study and shows there is noise going on?

 

[dnewton3]

Interesting how wear materials measurements trend up and down on the same oil over time. I'd imagine how much measured deviation we would get as more of the same oil gets sampled overtime. Would it make a nice statistical study and shows there is noise going on?

Perhaps read this ...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/

 

[wwillson]

Interesting how wear materials measurements trend up and down on the same oil over time. I'd imagine how much measured deviation we would get as more of the same oil gets sampled overtime. Would it make a nice statistical study and shows there is noise going on?

Keep in mind that there are three drains in this table. Each is highlighted in a unique color. The short middle drain was a very short drain to get the old CJ-4 formula out.

 

[fantastic]

Iron is only 1/3 or so of the previous formulation (Oct 21 vs Oct 23). This CK-4 appears to be an excellent upgrade. Great run!

 

[53' Stude]

Hola My friend,

I got some good friends in Naperville. I'll be incline to change just like the comment from Overfill. If we get one those cold winters, I wonder what the oil will be at -10 below.

The gentleman’s name is “OVERKILL”

 

[LazyDog]

The gentleman’s name is “OVERKILL”

Fat fingers

 

[Brons2]

That said Overfill would be a great BITOG username!

 

[4WD]

That said Overfill would be a great BITOG username!

Some days he is full of it

 

[Artem]

Interesting that copper has sort of plateau'd.

Since it has gone up two grades, I'd be inclined to change it personally, just based on that fact (the oxidative thickening) but I understand your reluctance to, based on the health of the lubricant and remaining TBN.

“TBN doesn’t matter anymore these days, nobody cares about it, blah blah yada yada”

But now all the sudden, “oh lookie at all that remaining TBN ”









(hashtag) TBN Numbers Matter

 

[wwillson]

(hashtag) TBN Numbers Matter

They do. If your TBN gets lower than 2-3, then you'll likely see an uptick in Fe, not because of wear, but because of corrosion (rust) of the steel parts.

 

[OVERKILL]

“TBN doesn’t matter anymore these days, nobody cares about it, blah blah yada yada”

Please point out where I've ever said this. I'll wait.

 

[bbhero]

Please point out where I've ever said this. I'll wait.

The temperature in hades is dropping precipitously…