Under valve cover pictures - 2014 Dodge Durango 164,000 miles total, 52,000 miles on HPL HDEO 5w-20

[wwillson]

Most recent UOA:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-20-18-700-miles-on-oil-158-700-total.370335/

These pictures are taken with a bore scope through the filler in the driver's side valve cover.

I started using HPL HDEO 5w-20 in this vehicle at 112,000 miles. The first oil change interval was 26,000 miles and we saw a lot of cleaning evidenced by the black debris trapped by the oil filters.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...6l-hpl-cj-4-5w-20-26-015-miles-on-oil.347523/

The second change is still in the engine and has been in service for 24,500 miles. The engine now has a total of 164,000 miles.

Under valve cover pictures - Dodge Durango 164,000 miles total

• wwillson
• Oct 3, 2023
• 8
• 1

This engine has been running HPL 5w-20 HDEO for 52,000 miles

 

[TomYoung]

I want to grumble about the time that oil is in the crankcase, but the multiple UOA's and the super clean pictures don't really give me a leg to stand on. This is not enough, though, for me to forgo my position that the smart money is on the $22 branded 0W20 for five quarts oil most likely from Amazon or Wal-Mart, changed our every 5k.

 

[Astro14]

Looks great, Wayne!

 

[wpod]

As expected with their high quality base oil blend

 

[RDY4WAR]

You would think that engine was new. That ester and AN base oil blend is doing its job.

 

[daves87rs]

Nice!

 

[loneryder]

No varnish!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I want to grumble about the time that oil is in the crankcase, but the multiple UOA's and the super clean pictures don't really give me a leg to stand on. This is not enough, though, for me to forgo my position that the smart money is on the $22 branded 0W20 for five quarts oil most likely from Amazon or Wal-Mart, changed our every 5k.

Dogma.

Free your mind… the truth is out there. Wwillson’s example isn’t a unicorn, it’s a representative sample of what HPL does on a regular basis. With shelf stock oils, they are always targeting a price point with a given performance floor. With HPL, you’re getting cutting edge formulations and top quality materials. Wwillson’s gone over 50k on two OCIs.. let’s do the math:

12 qts HPL HDEO + 2 Fram Endurance (assuming your engine isn’t filthy) = ~$163

50 quarts shelf stock + 10 average filters = $300 ($22 x ten 5qt jugs + 10 filters x $8)

So in this case not only does the lesser oil cost you nearly double in maintenance, it makes well over 4 times as much hazardous waste and raw materials used!

I’m not trying to convince you to use HPL, but don’t try to justify faulty inside-the-box thinking on a cost basis, protection basis, or environmentally responsible basis unless UOAs show that the oil is not suitable for continued use in VERY short timeframes. If the data supports longer OCIs as Wwillson’s have, every additional mile the OCI is extended keeps more money in your wallet and more time to do whatever you want. The data just doesn’t support any of the arguments in favor of shelf oils, regardless of the one you choose.

IMO you pay a little more up front in return for longer service life and reduced overall maintenance costs with HPL, and if you know anything about TPM, this is a maintenance manager’s dream. Less time spent maintaining, less time spent fixing, and less money spent on both!

 

[dnewton3]

Knowing the add pack HPL uses, this seems completely inline with expectations. More proof that long OCIs are not automatically detrimental. Using the right products in the right manner can result in both low wear rates and a near clinically clean engine; the norm for HPL.

OUTSTANDING!

 

[Titan]

It's not unusual to experience discomfort as one moves closer to the Truth, when the Truth doesn't line up with one's beliefs. Never thought I'd think about that bit of wisdom with regard to oil performance...yet, here many of us are...uncomfortable.

 

[DuckRyder]

Nice.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Question: Is that a crack in the casting on the right side of the first two photos?

 

[OVERKILL]

This is the one I was waiting for, lol. @AutoMechanic these are >20,000 mile intervals!

Now, the Pentastar is not a dirty running engine, and under valve cover pics by both @KrisZ and @Jimmy_Russells recently have shown clean engines, but neither of them are running intervals anywhere near this duration. So, I think this well-showcases the capability of using a base oil blend with high solvency in addition to a robust additive package, which goes well above and beyond the API mandated levels of deposit prevention.

 

[wwillson]

Question: Is that a crack in the casting on the right side of the first two photos?

No, all of the Pentastar heads I've seen in Bill's shop look the same.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

I would say the the HPL guys would be happy but this is probably nothing new to them. What they expect out of their oils

 

[buster]

Exceptionally clean

 

[cammyfive79]

Dogma.

Free your mind… the truth is out there. Wwillson’s example isn’t a unicorn, it’s a representative sample of what HPL does on a regular basis. With shelf stock oils, they are always targeting a price point with a given performance floor. With HPL, you’re getting cutting edge formulations and top quality materials. Wwillson’s gone over 50k on two OCIs.. let’s do the math:

12 qts HPL HDEO + 2 Fram Endurance (assuming your engine isn’t filthy) = ~$163

50 quarts shelf stock + 10 average filters = $300 ($22 x ten 5qt jugs + 10 filters x $8)

So in this case not only does the lesser oil cost you nearly double in maintenance, it makes well over 4 times as much hazardous waste and raw materials used!

I’m not trying to convince you to use HPL, but don’t try to justify faulty inside-the-box thinking on a cost basis, protection basis, or environmentally responsible basis unless UOAs show that the oil is not suitable for continued use in VERY short timeframes. If the data supports longer OCIs as Wwillson’s have, every additional mile the OCI is extended keeps more money in your wallet and more time to do whatever you want. The data just doesn’t support any of the arguments in favor of shelf oils, regardless of the one you choose.

IMO you pay a little more up front in return for longer service life and reduced overall maintenance costs with HPL, and if you know anything about TPM, this is a maintenance manager’s dream. Less time spent maintaining, less time spent fixing, and less money spent on both!

This has been something that I have personally struggled to "let go of"; I've been locked into the idea of "more oil changes = more better". Of course, like many of you, I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about oil, maintenance, and cars in general so perhaps I've been way overthinking. I had bought some Costco M1 just a couple of days ago with the plan of doing super short (3-5K) OCIs on our new car; after reading a ton more threads about longer OCIs and HPL in particular I've decided to return the M1 and start this car fresh with HPL and lengthen the intervals as I go. Of course the longest I can stretch while in the warranty period is 1 year / 10k miles so I realize that is less than half of what the OP is safely at now. It's always fun for me to read these discussions as it helps me "unlearn" old ideas that I had from back in the mid-1990s and 2-3k mile OCIs on my then new Plymouth Duster econobox.

 

[TomYoung]

Dogma.

Free your mind… the truth is out there. Wwillson’s example isn’t a unicorn, it’s a representative sample of what HPL does on a regular basis. With shelf stock oils, they are always targeting a price point with a given performance floor. With HPL, you’re getting cutting edge formulations and top quality materials. Wwillson’s gone over 50k on two OCIs.. let’s do the math:

12 qts HPL HDEO + 2 Fram Endurance (assuming your engine isn’t filthy) = ~$163

50 quarts shelf stock + 10 average filters = $300 ($22 x ten 5qt jugs + 10 filters x $8)

So in this case not only does the lesser oil cost you nearly double in maintenance, it makes well over 4 times as much hazardous waste and raw materials used!

I’m not trying to convince you to use HPL, but don’t try to justify faulty inside-the-box thinking on a cost basis, protection basis, or environmentally responsible basis unless UOAs show that the oil is not suitable for continued use in VERY short timeframes. If the data supports longer OCIs as Wwillson’s have, every additional mile the OCI is extended keeps more money in your wallet and more time to do whatever you want. The data just doesn’t support any of the arguments in favor of shelf oils, regardless of the one you choose.

IMO you pay a little more up front in return for longer service life and reduced overall maintenance costs with HPL, and if you know anything about TPM, this is a maintenance manager’s dream. Less time spent maintaining, less time spent fixing, and less money spent on both!

I used to run 12,000 miles OCI's using Mobil One on and old Acura, and would maybe consider doing that again. I don't think I need to "free my mind." The OP is constantly running oil analysis, each at the cost of more than one of my oil changes. That a few folks are able to get this oil life on specific vehicles does not mean that all will. Oil is completely recyclable, filters cost no more than $5. HPL products are not on manufacturer recommended list and have none of the certs, not even DEXOS. I am open to considering all the facts and don't see this as a cut and dry question.

 

[JTK]

Very cool indeed! Thanks for taking the time to post the pics.

Pentastars hold a lot of oil per the engine size and are port injected.

I wonder how this oil would hold up in your run of the mill GDI engine.

 

[OhioTech]

Very cool indeed! Thanks for taking the time to post the pics.

Pentastars hold a lot of oil per the engine size and are port injected.

I wonder how this oil would hold up in your run of the mill GDI engine.

The 10W-20 performed exceptionally in my Mazda CX-9!