Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 12,000 miles on oil - 152,000 total

[wwillson]

This sample was pulled from my 2014 Dodge Durango with a total of 152,000 miles and 12,000 miles on the oil. The oil is HPL's 5w-20 CK-4 based formula and has been run since Feb 9, 2022, about 14.5 months. The lab is Wearcheck. There is still cleaning taking place. This is the filter thread I posted:

Dodge Durango 3.6L - second run of HPL 5w-20 - 12,000 miles on oil - filter pictures at 5,000 mile change interval run from 147,000 - 152,000 miles

The first filter from this second run of HPL HDEO 5w-20 is here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-second-run-of-hpl-5w-20-5-000-miles-on-oil-filter-pictures-at-5-000-mile-change-interval.359054/ I have stated that I will change the filter every 5,000 miles until the...

bobistheoilguy.com

I have normalized the oxidation by taking the absolute value and subtracting the base oxidation value of virgin oil. Esters are high in carbonyl groups, ASTM D7414 will show high oxidation even in virgin oil.

The TBN, oxidation, wear, and contaminants all look good. The viscosity has increase by 12%, so we'll watch this at the next sample.

It is interesting to see from the intense cleaning in the first run, that he carbon deposits broken loose were causing oxidation in the oil. The second run has less cleaning and less oxidation. I'm not sure I remember seeing this before, even with the thousands of UOA we've looked at over the years.

Sample Information
Sample Date	Feb 2020	Dec 2020	March 2021	August 2021	October 2021	February 2022	March 1, 2022	September 5, 2022	April 19, 2023
Machine Age miles	116,000	122,200	127,420	132,679	137,615	140,000	141,500	147000	152000
Oil Age miles	5,000	11,200	15,820	21,079	26,015	2,500	1,500	7000	12000
Filter Age miles	5,000	11,200	15,820	21,079	4,936	2,500	1,500	2000	5000
Oil Changed	no	no	no	no	yes	yes	yes	no	no
Filter Changed	no	no	no	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes
Brand	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL
Viscosity	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO
						new formula	new formula
Wear Metals
Iron	5	13	21	42	62	19	6	9	15
Chromium	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]2	2	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD]
Nickel	0	0	0	TD] [TD]0	0	TD] [TD]0	0
Titanium	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]2	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0
Silver	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]0
Aluminum	3	3	1	5	5	4	2	4	1
Lead	0	0	TD] [TD]1	TD] [TD]1	1	0	0
Copper	3	10	16	39	66	64	31	65	72
Tin	0	TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	0
Vanandium	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]0	TD] [TD]0
Additives
Boron	181	81	42	43	23	20	2	2	0
Barium	3	0	1	0	2	0	0	0	0
Molybdenum	523	521	500	518	545	535	492	548	600
Manganese	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]2	3	1	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD]
Magnesium	462	446	430	467	461	1078	1091	981	1158
Calcium	3422	3237	3203	3379	3562	2812	2431	2458	2767
Phosphorus	788	777	760	754	802	1137	1094	1024	1095
Zinc	948	924	884	949	988	1326	1176	1271	1411
Contaminants
Silicon	11	11	15	25	33	17	12	13	18
Sodium	4	4	5	8	8	4	0	3	5
Potassium	1	TD] [TD]2	3	4	1	0	2	2
Fuel %	TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD] [TD]TD]
Glycol	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG
Soot%	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1
Fluid Condition
TBN	12.3	7.3	5.05	3.985	2.85	12	16.8	10.8	9.28
Viscosity	8.8	9.1	9.4	9.56	10.6	9.2	9.4	10	10.4
Oxidation	5	15.3	22.5	24.1	31	2	1	7.4	9.7

[TD]
[TD]
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[twX]

This has probably been discussed in your previous threads, but I notice a large increase in wear metals (iron and copper) and silicon after 16k miles on your first run. Changing the oil filter at 21k did not seem to do much to change this trend, so I don't think it was the culprit. It seems that the oil did not want to go much past 16k. Did you happen to replace the air filter around this time?

Any idea what is going on with copper? It hardly went down after two short OCIs. Does the new virgin HPL test high for copper or something?

 

[wwillson]

Did you happen to replace the air filter around this time?

I changed it at about 21,000 miles:

Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL 5w-20 - 21,079 Miles on oil

I'll add that @wwillson you might recall I had a similar experience (but without the trend of UOA's) with my Expedition. It had spent its life on bulk dealer oil prior to our purchase of it and when I started running Mobil 1 in it, I was getting all this carbonaceous material in my filters as...

bobistheoilguy.com

Any idea what is going on with copper? It hardly went down after two short OCIs.

Most likely chelation from the oil cooler, but this has been debated. The bottom line is we aren't sure, but aren't concerned about it.

Does the new virgin HPL test high for copper or something?

No it isn't.

 

[doublebase]

Why hasn’t soot percentage changed at all throughout nine different analysis‘s? Is soot hard to measure? Will an oil filter be able to filter soot like this every time, and produce the same results over and over again? Is it too much to expect soot to increase from one percentage point to two?

And the viscosity increase is interesting. That’s a timing chain engine (if I remember), I would have thought the viscosity would have decreased. Mine did on a 10,000 mile UOA. Interesting stuff! Thanks for posting.

 

[demarpaint]

I think it's doing well. Got to love that engine, no issues whatsoever with fuel dilution. They made a smart move imo not going to DI with that engine platform.

 

[wwillson]

Why hasn’t soot percentage changed at all throughout nine different analysis‘s? Is soot hard to measure? Will an oil filter be able to filter soot like this every time, and produce the same results over and over again? Is it too much to expect soot to increase from one percentage point to two?

I don't think the soot test works in gasoline engines, only in diesel. Maybe someone who understands the ASTM soot test will chime in.

That’s a timing chain engine (if I remember), I would have thought the viscosity would have decreased.

Yes, the Pentastar is a timing chain engine. The VII is very shear stable, so you don't see this oil shear. As oxidation and contamination occur, you'll see the viscosity slowly increase.