Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 10,474 miles on oil - 184,710 miles total

[wwillson]

This sample is from the Durango that I used to own. I sold it to my Son and DIL, with the understanding that I get to maintain it. They were somewhat confused and when I told them I want the data for BITOG, they gave me an odd look. Go figure. Their driving habits are much different than mine. They do a lot of short trip driving, while I did a lot of long trips. It will be interesting to compare how short tripping affects the oil compared to long trips. One sample is no samples, but the first short trip sample doesn't look much different.

Previous UOA here

Google Docs spreadsheet here


Edit: I removed the first OCI because the embedded table is getting too wide. See the google spreadsheet above for the data from the first OCI.

Edit: Filter pictures added 11/18/2024.

This is a Fram Endurance that was in service for 10,474 k miles. When you cut one of these apart, it is easy to see that this is a high quality filter. The seam where the filter element is joined together is hard to pull apart, unlike the Ultra which practically falls apart if you look at it. This engine continues to shed carbonaceous material from the pistons, but at a much lower rate then previous filter runs. I think 10k was about the right interval in this engine for this filter. There is a normal amount of metal in the filter for a 10k run, which is more than a little and less than a lot. The amount of metal is on par with what we've seen from this engine in the past. Yes, those shiny specks are metal flakes.

Data:

Sample Information
Sample Date	March 15, 2022	September 5, 2022	April 19, 2023	June 13, 2023	October 28, 2023	January 1, 2024	January 9, 2024	Sept 22, 2024
Machine Age miles	141,500	147,000	152,000	158,700	168,000	173,300	174,236	184,710
Oil Age miles	1,500	7,000	12,000	18,700	28,000	33,300	50	10,474
Makeup oil quarts						0.75		0
Filter Age miles	1,500	2,000	5,000	6,700	5,000	5,000	50	10,474
Oil Changed	yes	no	no	no	no	yes	no	no
Filter Changed	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	no	no
Brand	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL
Viscosity	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO
	new formula
Wear Metals
Iron	6	9	15	17	23	33	4	19
Chromium	<1	<1	<1	<1	1	2	0	1
Nickel	<1	0	0	<1	<1	<1	0	<1
Titanium	<1	<1	0	<1	<1	<1	0	<1
Silver	0	<1	0	0	0	0	0	<1
Aluminum	2	4	1	5	8	12	7	10
Lead	1	0	0	0	3	<1	<1	0
Copper	31	65	72	69	64	65	8	54
Tin	<1	0	0	0	<1	<1	<1	0
Vanandium	0	<1	0	<1	<1	<1	<1	<1
Cadmium	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Additives
Boron	2	2	0	0	1	16	18	4
Barium	0	0	0	4	1	0	0	0
Molybdenum	492	548	600	590	494	573	579	581
Manganese	<1	<1	<1	<1	<1	2	<1	1
Magnesium	1091	981	1158	1059	998	1131	1008	974
Calcium	2431	2458	2767	2645	2340	2637	2532	2545
Phosphorus	1094	1024	1095	1041	855	1089	1144	910
Zinc	1176	1271	1411	1271	1129	1404	1284	1194
Contaminants
Silicon	12	13	18	17	20	22	13	20
Sodium	0	3	5	4	16	19	4	14
Potassium	0	2	2	3	4	3	<1	3
Fuel %	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0
Glycol	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG
Soot%	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0	0.1	0.1	0.1
Fluid Condition
TBN	16.8	10.8	9.28	8.11	6	7.76	15.03	8.94
Viscosity	9.4	10	10.4	11.6	12.6	13.2	10.4	10.4
Oxidation	0 (39.7)	12(51.7)	14.3(54.0)	21(60.7)	24.4(64.1)	27.1(66.8)	0(39.5)	15.5(55)

 

[fantastic]

Very good report for the new driving habbit's. I could imagine the funny look in response to the oil change maintenance request.

Around 15k would be the sweet spot on this oil/vehicle. But I have no idea on the direction your kiddo's want to do or how often you want to change. I see they're about 10 months into this interval so 1 full year would be perfect with a bit of a buffer leftover at around 12,600 miles (1 yr based on these numbers),.

 

[wwillson]

Around 15k would be the sweet spot on this oil/vehicle. But I have no idea on the direction your kiddo's want to do or how often you want to change. I see they're about 10 months into this interval so 1 full year would be perfect with a bit of a buffer leftover at around 12,600 miles (1 yr based on these numbers)

I'll change it when the data says to change it and not a UOA sooner

This HPL oil is formulated for extended drains and as you can see from the past intervals that I'm not afraid to extend. I'll check it at 20k miles and see how it's doing.

 

[IndyFan]

Wow, looks surprisingly good! Did it use any oil?

Edit...I see 3/4 qt make up oil.

VERY impressive!

 

[wwillson]

Wow, looks surprisingly good! Did it use any oil?

Edit...I see 3/4 qt make up oil.

No, you need to slide over two more columns. Maybe I will take the first OCI out, because the table is getting too wide.

 

[loneryder]

I'll change it when the data says to change it and not a UOA sooner

This HPL oil is formulated for extended drains and as you can see from the past intervals that I'm not afraid to extend. I'll check it at 20k miles and see how it's doing.

I would never buy a vehicle from you.

 

[wwillson]

I would never buy a vehicle from you.

I would never sell a vehicle to you

 

[FZ1]

This sample is from the Durango that I used to own. I sold it to my Son and DIL, with the understanding that I get to maintain it. They were somewhat confused and when I told them I want the data for BITOG, they gave me an odd look. Go figure. Their driving habits are much different than mine. They do a lot of short trip driving, while I did a lot of long trips. It will be interesting to compare how short tripping affects the oil compared to long trips. One sample is no samples, but the first short trip sample doesn't look much different.

Previous UOA:

Thread 'Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 33,300 miles on oil - 173,000 miles total'

Jan 4, 2024

This sample was pulled from my 2014 Dodge Durango with a total of 173,000 miles and 33,300 miles on the oil. I estimate the run time is 835 hours(33,300 miles/40 MPH). The oil is HPL's 5w-20 CK-4 based formula and has been run since Feb 9, 2022, about 23 months. The lab is Wearcheck. The usage on this 5,300 miles run was >75% high speed driving down the interstate. There was 3/4 quart of makeup oil. The PCV valve was changed and oil consumption returned to zero and the oil cooler was changed. Approximately 50% of the fuel used for this 5,300 mile was E-85. Fe wear rate for this 5,300 miles...

• wwillson
• Replies: 41
• Forum: Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline

• 
• 
• 

Google Docs spreadsheet here


Edit: I removed the first OCI because the embedded table is getting too wide. See the previous thread above for the data from the first OCI.
Data:

Sample Information
Sample Date	March 15, 2022	September 5, 2022	April 19, 2023	June 13, 2023	October 28, 2023	January 1, 2024	January 9, 2024	Sept 22, 2024
Machine Age miles	141,500	147,000	152,000	158,700	168,000	173,300	174,236	184,710
Oil Age miles	1,500	7,000	12,000	18,700	28,000	33,300	50	10,474
Makeup oil quarts						0.75		0
Filter Age miles	1,500	2,000	5,000	6,700	5,000	5,000	50	10,474
Oil Changed	yes	no	no	no	no	yes	no	no
Filter Changed	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	no	no
Brand	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL	HPL
Viscosity	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO	5w-20 HDEO
	new formula
Wear Metals
Iron	6	9	15	17	23	33	4	19
Chromium	<1	<1	<1	<1	1	2	0	1
Nickel	<1	0	0	<1	<1	<1	0	<1
Titanium	<1	<1	0	<1	<1	<1	0	<1
Silver	0	<1	0	0	0	0	0	<1
Aluminum	2	4	1	5	8	12	7	10
Lead	1	0	0	0	3	<1	<1	0
Copper	31	65	72	69	64	65	8	54
Tin	<1	0	0	0	<1	<1	<1	0
Vanandium	0	<1	0	<1	<1	<1	<1	<1
Cadmium	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Additives
Boron	2	2	0	0	1	16	18	4
Barium	0	0	0	4	1	0	0	0
Molybdenum	492	548	600	590	494	573	579	581
Manganese	<1	<1	<1	<1	<1	2	<1	1
Magnesium	1091	981	1158	1059	998	1131	1008	974
Calcium	2431	2458	2767	2645	2340	2637	2532	2545
Phosphorus	1094	1024	1095	1041	855	1089	1144	910
Zinc	1176	1271	1411	1271	1129	1404	1284	1194
Contaminants
Silicon	12	13	18	17	20	22	13	20
Sodium	0	3	5	4	16	19	4	14
Potassium	0	2	2	3	4	3	<1	3
Fuel %	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0	<1.0
Glycol	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG	NEG
Soot%	0.1	0.1	0.1	0.1	0	0.1	0.1	0.1
Fluid Condition
TBN	16.8	10.8	9.28	8.11	6	7.76	15.03	8.94
Viscosity	9.4	10	10.4	11.6	12.6	13.2	10.4	10.4
Oxidation	0 (39.7)	12(51.7)	14.3(54.0)	21(60.7)	24.4(64.1)	27.1(66.8)	0(39.5)	15.5(55)

Wear was good. Love the Moly, but the oil is thickening out of grade.

 

[dnewton3]

A good start to a long run.
Fingers crossed you can get to 35k or better.

 

[wwillson]

but the oil is thickening out of grade.

It started this run at 10.4 and is still 10.4, so this run hasn't thickened at all.

 

[wlk]

It started this run at 10.4 and is still 10.4, so this run hasn't thickened at all.

Probably meant the first run not the current fill. How I read and viewed it

 

[DirectRejection]

wwillson, these 5W20 UOAs are the most impressive results of them all !

I have a hard time picturing, sludge, varnish...anything.

 

[FZ1]

It started this run at 10.4 and is still 10.4, so this run hasn't thickened at all.

The 5w-20 started at 10.4?

 

[wwillson]

The 5w-20 started at 10.4?

Yes, remember that there was still some of the previous run's oil left in the engine. The previous run ended at 13.2, hence the increased viscosity of the 50 mile sample.

 

[GMBoy]

This was very enjoyable to read and you made the data crystal clear - thank you for that! We have a 2014 JGC 3.6 in the fleet so I may consider the HPL but then again it's been on a diet of Mobil 1 5w/30 it's whole life (171k) so maybe I should not change anything at this point. It still looks and drives like a new car.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

The 5w-20 started at 10.4?

Looks like a 30 grade from here. Formulated on the margin.
What is the virgin KV100? That 33K run was too long.
Interesting lube.

Any Fuel mileage hits with no VM?

Have the cam finger followers been replaced at some stage in this engine?

Thanks for the data.

 

[wwillson]

Looks like a 30 grade from here. Formulated on the margin.
What is the virgin KV100?

Nope, this is from the same lot # as the previous OCI, which started at ~9.0. The thickening is likely from being blended with the higher viscosity left over oil in the engine and/or lab error, probably both.

That 33K run was too long.

Too long for what? All evidence I have presented in my previous threads shows that the 34k run caused no problems.

Any Fuel mileage hits with no VM?

By "VM" do you mean viscosity index modifiers? If so, this 5w-20 HDEO has VIIs.

Have the cam finger followers been replaced at some stage in this engine?

No, the valve covers have never been off.

 

[fantastic]

I'll change it when the data says to change it and not a UOA sooner

This HPL oil is formulated for extended drains and as you can see from the past intervals that I'm not afraid to extend. I'll check it at 20k miles and see how it's doing.

Very well, I was going by the si level of the last run but I see you've went to 33k already and silicon has not gone up hardly at all. I thought you'd mention dusty area in your other UOA so I had silicon in mind (20 ppm @ 10k) but this situation may be different. Carry on.

Excited to see future results.

 

[wwillson]

Very well, I was going by the si level of the last run but I see you've went to 33k already and silicon has not gone up hardly at all. I thought you'd mention dusty area in your other UOA so I had silicon in mind (20 ppm @ 10k) but this situation may be different.

Keep in mind the Si has only gone up 7ppm or 0.7ppm/1k miles in this 10k run. That's about what it was during the this entire test across many UOAs, so I call it normal.

 

[Brons2]

What kind of other work have you done on this 3.6? 184K is substantial mileage.