Perfect swirl free paint-but at what cost?

[flinter]

I will be having my car detailed and 1 step correction to remove some light surface scratching/swirls. But once its corrected, wont I than have paint and clearcoat that
has been compromised and thinned down a bit, shortening the life of the paint and clearcoat?
Is that the compromise folks need to know about before agreeing to a paint correction? Or, is it solely dependent on the skill of the detailer?

Unless I am missing this, I really never heard this discussed here.

 

[gregk24]

Swirls arent hurting anything but looks, and with my gold metalic paint you dont even notice them, I would just leave as is.

 

[flinter]

I dont have gold metallic paint! My car is just 6 months old! Surface scratches and swirling already is totally unacceptable, to me. Sure, if the car was like 8 years or more, I would live with it, but not a practically brand new car.
These defects were the result of horrible dealer prep. This is the detail and wax forum, it's ALL about looks!

 

[dparm]

You can minimize the swirls or slow down their return by properly washing and drying the car -- go front to back (like the air would move over the car). Never wash or dry in circles or they'll come right back.

Polishing out swirls is taking off an extremely minute amount of clearcoat, yes. It's not enough to worry about unless you are sitting there with some crazy buffer and holding it to the paint for 5 minutes.

 

[qwertydude]

Every serious swirl removal removes a little bit of paint. You can usually polish normal light swirls out without harm and out without significantly affecting paint life. Poor dealer prep on a new car generally doesn't inflict very deep swirls.

Poor dealer prep mostly just puts in light swirls and holograms, the same as if you basically just washed the car wrong and dried with say a bath towel. On a new car it's just a combination of new owner paranoia and the fact that you're starting out with pristine paint that makes any dealer installed swirls stand out.

With that said a gentle polish with a fine finishing polish like M205 or Ultimate Polish won't remove much paint and will get out the swirls.

There's no need for a heavy compound at all for a new car unless the dealer decided to polish your paint with beach sand. And generally if you take care of the paint with frequent washing and waxings you'll almost never need to compound. On my own daily drivers I might compound every 4-5 years if that. Keeping to this routine I have no doubt a quality OEM paint will last 30+ years and still look brand new. But who's really keeping a car that long? Unless you drive a classic from the 1970's right now I doubt you'll decide to keep that old Toyota Corolla or Silverado pickup for that long.

Now about how perfect you want your paint, you'll never keep a car you actually drive and use perfect. No way no how, at least not for very long. And people who want to do so and polish monthly and compound yearly are asking for trouble later on down the line. Generally I can keep a car looking 90% perfect with only a finishing polish once or twice a year, once for cars that don't really show swirls like silver and twice a year for cars like my gloss black Cadillac CTS.

I bought my car used and it did have some rather deep swirls being a business fleet car, basically whatever Ultimate Polish on a polishing pad with my DA can't remove, I'll just live with and reduce the appearance by frequent waxing. I wax once a month with Collinite 915 and it really helps to hide swirls and reduce their visibility.

I did switch back to Collinite 915 from Tech Wax 2.0 because even though it does darken dark colors and hide swirls even better the reflectivity just isn't the same like with 915. Any wax that darkens just seems to be too oily to use on non metallic gloss black. Sure it'll be dark but I want the reflections sharp and unobscured by a coating of "beautifying" oils.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: flinter
I dont have gold metallic paint! My car is just 6 months old! Surface scratches and swirling already is totally unacceptable, to me. Sure, if the car was like 8 years or more, I would live with it, but not a practically brand new car.
These defects were the result of horrible dealer prep. This is the detail and wax forum, it's ALL about looks!


If its all about looks then remove the swirls.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: qwertydude
Generally I can keep a car looking 90% perfect with only a finishing polish once or twice a year, once for cars that don't really show swirls like silver and twice a year for cars like my gloss black Cadillac CTS.


Which will look a 1000x better compared to a car that has peeling clear coat. I like this gentle approach and keeping it to a polish or even an AIO.

 

[Texican]

If your just talking about a polish with a foam pad then you don't have anything to worry about. It's when you get into buffing with a wool pad and using a rubbing compound, is when you start taking down the clear coat.

 

[MKZman]

The best approach is to get rid of the major ones but leave the random deeper ones. There are some sealants and waxes that hide swirls somewhat better than others. You really do not want to remove a lot of the clearcoat since thin clear leads to early paint failure.

 

[flinter]

The light surface scratches on my car are VERY light and can only be see in direct sunlight at certain angles.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: flinter
I dont have gold metallic paint! My car is just 6 months old! Surface scratches and swirling already is totally unacceptable, to me. Sure, if the car was like 8 years or more, I would live with it, but not a practically brand new car.
These defects were the result of horrible dealer prep. This is the detail and wax forum, it's ALL about looks!


If its all about looks then remove the swirls.

Your car recently visited a body shop. The body shop probably caused all of the paint defects during their "final detail."

Originally Posted By: Texican
If your just talking about a polish with a foam pad then you don't have anything to worry about. It's when you get into buffing with a wool pad and using a rubbing compound, is when you start taking down the clear coat.


With some of the newer compounds, you can remove a scary amount of paint using just a foam pad. Google for info on the new Meguiars M101 -- that stuff cuts an insane amount in short order. So yes, you need to be mindful of what you are using.

Originally Posted By: dparm
You can minimize the swirls or slow down their return by properly washing and drying the car -- go front to back (like the air would move over the car). Never wash or dry in circles or they'll come right back.

Polishing out swirls is taking off an extremely minute amount of clearcoat, yes. It's not enough to worry about unless you are sitting there with some crazy buffer and holding it to the paint for 5 minutes.


Proper washing and drying are key.

Circular motions by themselves do not cause defects-- improper media does. But if you are going to introduce defects, straight-line marring is going to far more difficult to see.

 

[Texican]

Your right about the meguiars m101, but that's a heavy cut compound made to be used with a cutting foam pad. I was talking about a polishing foam pad that is used with 3M's machine glaze or meguires swirl remover 2.0.

 

[flinter]

Are the lavender Super Plush Junior 16 x 16 MF towels that Auto Geek sells good quality? Those are the ones I have been using.

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
Never wash or dry in circles or they'll come right back.
I susbscribe to modification of the above theory
Quote:
Never wash
Anybody would like to see a picture of flawless finish which has not been washed in a year?

 

[strat81]

If my paint was swirl-free, I'd still have the factory-installed orange peel to look at. Thanks, GM!

 

[Boomstryker]

Just to chime in, I've used Zaino Polishes for 5-6 years with really good success. When layering the polishes Z2 or Z5, it really minimizes and surface swirls and fills them. The protection of the clearcoat/paint surface is excellent. It takes a day to go through the process but is worth it. They have a section discussing which towels to use for drying and removing the polish after application. They have the best towels I've seen although a bit pricey. 100% cotton and no foreign towels are best.
http://www.zainostore.com/

 

[JetStar]

It is dependent on the skill of the detailer and the time he spends finding the LEAST agressive polish or process to correct the problem. I like to start mild and work up.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Anybody would like to see a picture of flawless finish which has not been washed in a year?


It may be flawless now, but when you go to wash it and de-contaminate it from all of the crud that has built up, that is when you'll inflict some defects.

 

[RTexasF]

What is the point of perfect flawless paint unless it is a show car that is always hauled in an enclosed trailer? On a daily driver you want to achieve the best realistic look that you can acquire and be able to maintain it. Yes, it does depend on the talents of the detailer and how you express to him/her what you are looking for. Communication is vital after you have found a true pro detailer and not a hack.

 

[qwertydude]

Originally Posted By: Boomstryker
Just to chime in, I've used Zaino Polishes for 5-6 years with really good success. When layering the polishes Z2 or Z5, it really minimizes and surface swirls and fills them. The protection of the clearcoat/paint surface is excellent. It takes a day to go through the process but is worth it. They have a section discussing which towels to use for drying and removing the polish after application. They have the best towels I've seen although a bit pricey. 100% cotton and no foreign towels are best.
http://www.zainostore.com/


Foreign or not cotton will most definitely swirl a perfected finish a lot more easily than a decent microfiber which will be made either in China or Korea.

Oh and if you're wondering, those Zaino towels, made in Korea.