Penzoil Ultra (Old Forumla) vs new forumula

[Bill7]

Hi, Has anyone who has posted oil analysis on this board using the Penzoil Ultra (old forumula) also posted oil analysis with the newer Penzoil Ultra Plantinum with PurePlus (Made from Natural Gas) oil (on the same engine). I'm most interested to see if the Iron wear has gone up or down (on same engine) using the newer Penzoil Ultra Platinum with PruePlus technology. Thanks...

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I think the answer you are seeking is not that simple. Just looking for wear metals does not mean that one oil is "wearing" your motor out quicker than another. There are many factors to look into, and to be honest, even if you used Walmart brand synthetic oil and changed it every 5k miles your car most likely will never have an oil related failure for the life of the car. Find an oil that meets the specs your car engine needs and find one for the best price you can afford. Everything else? Is just personal preference. Jeff

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX

I think the answer you are seeking is not that simple. Just looking for wear metals does not mean that one oil is "wearing" your motor out quicker than another. There are many factors to look into, and to be honest, even if you used Walmart brand synthetic oil and changed it every 5k miles your car most likely will never have an oil related failure for the life of the car. Find an oil that meets the specs your car engine needs and find one for the best price you can afford. Everything else? Is just personal preference. Jeff

^^^^^^^^^ is very sound advice.

 

[wsar10]

I'm interested in info about this oil aswell, I just passed on it at WM after reading about the NG. I was very disappointed since I wanted to use this in our (new to us) explorer, but will not until I can verify that it is as spectacular as it once was. I'll be surprised if we get any solid answers, it seams over the past 2 years the site has become filled with the "any modern oil will do for you engine" crowd............. When I joined guys would rip any given oil apart limb by limb and give solid recommendations regarding the oil that has historically performed the best for any given engine.

 

[richport29]

Hasn't PU been using GTL basetocks since the move to API SN?

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: wsar10

I'm interested in info about this oil aswell, I just passed on it at WM after reading about the NG. I was very disappointed since I wanted to use this in our (new to us) explorer, but will not until I can verify that it is as spectacular as it once was. I'll be surprised if we get any solid answers, it seams over the past 2 years the site has become filled with the "any modern oil will do for you engine" crowd............. When I joined guys would rip any given oil apart limb by limb and give solid recommendations regarding the oil that has historically performed the best for any given engine.

People are correct in saying "any modern oil will do" as long as the oil meets the spec for your engine that is all that matters. Oils now have come along way and to survive in this competitive market you need to have a decent product. If your car specs a certain oil and you use that spec? That's all that really matters in the long run. Everything else is just personal opinion backed by hearsay. Jeff

 

[Bill7]

I know others on this board will hammer me for saying this, but there is a trend in the oil analysis spanning hundreds of different engines that show that Penzoil Platinum / Penzoil Ultra have lower Iron wear metals than other oils (Expecially Mobil 1). Do a google search for Mobil 1 high iron wear to see what I mean. So, I prefer Penzoil Platinum / Penzoil Ultra for this reason. So, my question is whether Penzoil's new oil formulations which use 100% Natural Gas base stocks (PurePlus technology) had higher or lower Iron wear than the previous Penzoil Platnium / Penzoil Ultra forumulas on a particular engine that has had oil analysis done with both the old and new Penzoil formulations.

 

[MrQuackers]

I would not be surprised to learn that M1 sometimes has high iron only because it is the better cleaning oil. Get quality spec oil on sale and do 5k intervals and you're golden.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: Bill7

I know others on this board will hammer me for saying this, but there is a trend in the oil analysis spanning hundreds of different engines that show that Penzoil Platinum / Penzoil Ultra have lower Iron wear metals than other oils (Expecially Mobil 1). Do a google search for Mobil 1 high iron wear to see what I mean. So, I prefer Penzoil Platinum / Penzoil Ultra for this reason. So, my question is whether Penzoil's new oil formulations which use 100% Natural Gas base stocks (PurePlus technology) had higher or lower Iron wear than the previous Penzoil Platnium / Penzoil Ultra forumulas on a particular engine that has had oil analysis done with both the old and new Penzoil formulations.

Regardless of whether UOA's have higher iron with M1 has no relevance to engine health and is a perfect example of misuse of data that is all over this site. The metals in an UOA show oil contamination level and NOT wear rate.

 

[Bill7]

Blackstone labs mentions metal wear in their comments on the oil analysis if they see alarmingly high numbers... Metal wear is something to monitor.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: Bill7

Hi, Has anyone who has posted oil analysis on this board using the Penzoil Ultra (old forumula) also posted oil analysis with the newer Penzoil Ultra Plantinum with PurePlus (Made from Natural Gas) oil (on the same engine). I'm most interested to see if the Iron wear has gone up or down (on same engine) using the newer Penzoil Ultra Platinum with PruePlus technology. Thanks...

Sorry but that would be absolutely incorrect use of UOA data. You can't draw conclusions like that using just cheap UOA data.

 

[Bill7]

I think all of us are searching for an oil which will keep our engine clean (free of sludge), and also have low wear metals on Used Oil analysis reports. At least for me, the old Penzoil Ultra / Platinum satisfied that criteria, and my original question was simply if Penzoil's new formulas were better or worse than the old forumula in terms of cleanliness and engine wear.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Bill7

Blackstone labs mentions metal wear in their comments on the oil analysis if they see alarmingly high numbers...

Right, but what you're attempting to do here, trying to discern between a few extra PPM of iron is just splitting hairs. It has no relevance to engine longevity.

 

[Bill7]

This website has changed. It appears all the members on this board get so stuck in quicksand, making any conclusions about anything impossible, and have the mentality that $3 a quart Walmart brand dyno oil (API SN) is as good as any $10 a quart Synthetic, and that any engine can go 300k on either oil with no engine issues. The fact is some engines are prone to sludge (Toyota engines from 1999, Chrysler Seabring engines, Honda 3.5 Liter VCM engines, etc). Oils that resist sludge can make a big difference is those engines. Also, engines with 150k miles on them can have engine wear that means clearances get larger, and then mechanics say to use thicker oil to fill the large clearances to keep oil pressure high enough to circulate. So engine wear is important. If Penzoil Ultra Platinum is the best oil on the planet, giving lowest sludge levels and lowest oil wear metals, and we can prove that scientifically, then this website and its discusssions really have value.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Originally Posted By: Bill7

Blackstone labs mentions metal wear in their comments on the oil analysis if they see alarmingly high numbers...

Right, but what you're attempting to do here, trying to discern between a few extra PPM of iron is just splitting hairs. It has no relevance to engine longevity.

Exactly. A few ppm is absolutely irrelevant. Used oil analysis are meant to establish trends. So this trending data should remain consistent. If the wear metals suddenly shoot up 100ppm in a single interval then of course there is an issue that needs to be looked at but let's get serious here. For example I'd bet my left one that if blackstone took an entire sump full of oil,divided it into 100 samples and tested wear metals in every sample each one would have a different wear metal content. A used oil analysis is a snapshot,not the whole movie. Using a single used oil analysis to determine wear is like taking a single frame of a movie and using that single frame to try and infer the entire story. Doesn't work that way.

 

[Bill7]

Thanks, and I agree with that statement... So question is, is there any way to prove 1 oil better than another (based on testing), or should we just say, any oil that passes Europe's very tough Acea certification will be an outstanding oil, and limit our selection to only those oils?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Bill7

This website has changed.

And that's a good thing. Over time, we've learned not to pay attention to certain things that are irrelevant. Alas, BITOG will be BITOG. People will continue debating the tiniest minutiae because that is what we do here. As was noted above, a $20 UOA is not the right tool to compare one oil against another.

Quote:

The fact is some engines are prone to sludge (Toyota engines from 1999, Chrysler Seabring engines, Honda 3.5 Liter VCM engines, etc). Oils that resist sludge can make a big difference is those engines.

As far as sludge resistance and piston cleanliness, and even wear protection, if you want the best, use an oil that meets the stringent Euro specs such as MB 229.5. This spec is a lot stricter than any API spec when it comes to the above mentioned criteria.

 

[Bill7]

Any oil that passes Acea 2012 will be an outstanding oil in both engine wear prevention and sludge prevention. Buy the 5 quart jug of your favorite synthetic at Walmart, as long as it lists passing the ACEA 2010 or 2012 standard.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Bill7

This website has changed. It appears all the members on this board get so stuck in quicksand, making any conclusions about anything impossible, and have the mentality that $3 a quart Walmart brand dyno oil (API SN) is as good as any $10 a quart Synthetic, and that any engine can go 300k on either oil with no engine issues. The fact is some engines are prone to sludge (Toyota engines from 1999, Chrysler Seabring engines, Honda 3.5 Liter VCM engines, etc). Oils that resist sludge can make a big difference is those engines. Also, engines with 150k miles on them can have engine wear that means clearances get larger, and then mechanics say to use thicker oil to fill the large clearances to keep oil pressure high enough to circulate. So engine wear is important. If Penzoil Ultra Platinum is the best oil on the planet, giving lowest sludge levels and lowest oil wear metals, and we can prove that scientifically, then this website and its discusssions really have value.

Engines such as the example are few and far between thus the majority of members do not own one. Also if the engine is such of an ill design the best thing you could do is change the oil at 3K intervals and it is not indicative of the oil brand used. It is an indictment of poor decisions made by corporations that released a poor engineering design or poor judgements to save money.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I understand the OP's curiosities about PU new formula. I respect that. All the others here are not trying to skip around or side step the answer your seeking. All some of us are saying is that "wear metals" is a term thrown around this site. Blackstone will say the words "wear metals" as a generalization of possible wear patern. Just use the UOA's to keep an eye on things. If you see dramatic changes then yes there may be an issue. Just don't focus so much on that because penzoil is good oil and if you change your oil at the recommended time and use the recommended oil that your engine is spec'd for you will most likely never ever have an oil related failure regardless of which Penzoil product or any oil that meets your engines spec for that matter. Jeff