Penzoil Ultra (Old Forumla) vs new forumula

[SilverC6]

The new Ultra is one of the best motor oils from SOPUS.

The old Ultra, unless you have a stash already, is difficult to find.

I'd proceed with the new Ultra and never look back.

Everyone on here has a preferred oil but we all understand there are few bad choices out there with API SN motor oils.

The key is use a reasonable OCI and watch for engine issues that can produce sludge/contaminants.

Neglect is the thing that kills engines.

 

[grantsburg]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

As was noted above, a $20 UOA is not the right tool to compare one oil against another.


Wut?

Lets say that oil A run for 6k has a UOA with a TBN of 3 and the viscosity held up strong. Meanwhile oil B run for 6k on the same car immediately after has a TBN of 1.5 and the viscosity didn't hold up.

So in this case I can't say that oil A is better in my engine than oil B ??

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: grantsburg
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

As was noted above, a $20 UOA is not the right tool to compare one oil against another.


Wut?

Lets say that oil A run for 6k has a UOA with a TBN of 3 and the viscosity held up strong. Meanwhile oil B run for 6k on the same car immediately after has a TBN of 1.5 and the viscosity didn't hold up.

So in this case I can't say that oil A is better in my engine than oil B ??





Only if A and B were tested under the exact conditions including season and with the same fuel.

 

[wsar10]

so based on most of he comments in this thread...... UOA's mean nothing, oil is just oil, wear metal in oil means nothing and all oils are created equal for all engines....

What are we doing here then ?

I find it hard to believe that high iron with M1 in a given engine vs the same engine with a different oil producing lower iron numbers or any metal...is just meaningless ! To say "well thats just contaminants in the oil from cleaning" yeah its gathering the metals that have worn during its use.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: grantsburg
So in this case I can't say that oil A is better in my engine than oil B ??

You really can't. There is a lot more to it... starting TBN, the rate of depletion, TAN, fuel dilution, etc... it all needs to be looked at together.

The primary benefit of a $20 UOA is achieved from trending, not a single report. However, a single report can help detect fuel, coolant, or dirt contamination issues.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: grantsburg
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

As was noted above, a $20 UOA is not the right tool to compare one oil against another.


Wut?

Lets say that oil A run for 6k has a UOA with a TBN of 3 and the viscosity held up strong. Meanwhile oil B run for 6k on the same car immediately after has a TBN of 1.5 and the viscosity didn't hold up.

So in this case I can't say that oil A is better in my engine than oil B ??
I 100% agree with you! although I'm no scientist with 6 PhD's in molecular engineering and chemical engineering like a lot of BITOGers like to pretend they are.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Quote from QP

Over time, we've learned not to pay attention to certain things that are irrelevant. Alas, BITOG will be BITOG. People will continue debating the tiniest minutiae because that is what we do here.

This is very true.

What I have learned is don't sweat the brand so much of oil you use pay attention to the spec that your engine requires.

That is what is ultimately most important. Especially on stock unmodified vehicles.

Jeff

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: wsar10
so based on most of he comments in this thread...... UOA's mean nothing, oil is just oil, wear metal in oil means nothing and all oils are created equal for all engines....

What are we doing here then ?

I find it hard to believe that high iron with M1 in a given engine vs the same engine with a different oil producing lower iron numbers or any metal...is just meaningless ! To say "well thats just contaminants in the oil from cleaning" yeah its gathering the metals that have worn during its use.


A single UOA means almost nothing. As Pete has stated the more data you have the better single UOA are meaningless unless you detect coolant intrusion.

 

[grantsburg]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: grantsburg
So in this case I can't say that oil A is better in my engine than oil B ??

You really can't. There is a lot more to it... starting TBN, the rate of depletion, TAN, fuel dilution, etc... it all needs to be looked at together.

The primary benefit of a $20 UOA is achieved from trending, not a single report. However, a single report can help detect fuel, coolant, or dirt contamination issues.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/


I get that. But at the same time, with my Infiniti, for example, I'm getting UOAs on every oil change with different brands of oil, same mileage, same driving conditions.So I am trending and I'm hoping to see if one oil has an edge over another. Am I wasting my time?

 

[dave1251]

Is the chase worth it to you?

 

[route66mike]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: grantsburg
So in this case I can't say that oil A is better in my engine than oil B ??

You really can't. There is a lot more to it... starting TBN, the rate of depletion, TAN, fuel dilution, etc... it all needs to be looked at together.

The primary benefit of a $20 UOA is achieved from trending, not a single report. However, a single report can help detect fuel, coolant, or dirt contamination issues.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/


So, I do UOAs over a couple of years, to get a trend, to give to the NEW OWNER of the car? Good deal for me. Water under the bridge already.

Or, my driving conditions change, which interrupts the trend, because now I can blame possible poor UOAs on shorter trips or dusty roads? Again, UOAs are a rear view mirror after the fact.

grantsburg is basically right. You go with the best info you have, go with the fact you see one oil turn to doo-doo compared to the other oil you saw do well. Maximum likelihood is the better performing oil is the good oil.

 

[SilverC6]

I spend my UOA money on more frequent changes.

 

[grantsburg]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Is the chase worth it to you?


Yes, because it doesn't hurt my wallet and I like testing things. Hey, I'm just trying to get a feel for the benefits of UOAs.

The statement I quoted would seem to indicate that UOAs are only good for detecting abnormal conditions such as coolant intrusions and not for comparing the quality of different brands of oil. I don't agree but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

 

[dave1251]

If the chase is worth it to you. Then by all means continue just file it under the pursuit of happiness clause.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: grantsburg
I get that. But at the same time, with my Infiniti, for example, I'm getting UOAs on every oil change with different brands of oil, same mileage, same driving conditions.So I am trending and I'm hoping to see if one oil has an edge over another. Am I wasting my time?

Pretty much. You may find out which oil lasts longer in your usage pattern, but that's about it. To trend properly, you need to limit the variables, especially when it comes to oil choice.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: grantsburg
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: grantsburg
So in this case I can't say that oil A is better in my engine than oil B ??

You really can't. There is a lot more to it... starting TBN, the rate of depletion, TAN, fuel dilution, etc... it all needs to be looked at together.

The primary benefit of a $20 UOA is achieved from trending, not a single report. However, a single report can help detect fuel, coolant, or dirt contamination issues.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/


I get that. But at the same time, with my Infiniti, for example, I'm getting UOAs on every oil change with different brands of oil, same mileage, same driving conditions.So I am trending and I'm hoping to see if one oil has an edge over another. Am I wasting my time?

To answer your Q in my opinion is yes.

To build a trend you need to stick with an oil for some time to even see a pattern. If your changing oil brands all the time all your logging are baselines and nothing more.

Jeff

 

[wsar10]

So I understand "trends", here is the thing, in my situation I just brought home this explorer and drained "dealership dino" out and put in GC 0-40.
If I do a UOA on this oil, what does that prove ? How can it be a baseline when there will be contamination from the prev. oil ?

Further more my next OCI will be winter which will have "warm up" cycles and winter fuel, So how could THAT UOA be a baseline ??

Any insight ?

I started with the GC 0-40(since I have seen good numbers on here in a 4.0) in my engine and than I'd like to run 2 OCI's of T6 and compare......

 

[T-Stick]

If you say an engine sounds smoother or feels like it runs better on x oil, someone will (rightly) say "That's anecdotal and not empirical evidence--you need to get some UOAs." If you run some UOAs and the results favor a favorite oil like Mobil 1 you will hear "That oil is really good for your application."

If the UOA results show another oil with consistently better numbers than a favorite like Mobil 1 you will see posts saying --"You can't make judgments from a $20 UOA!" Following this logic the only thing you could learn from a UOA is how quickly the oil is contaminating or depleting (but sometimes that's a function of oil performance also).

I, for one, if comparing multiple UOAs in the same or varied applications notice a consistently higher trend of FEs in a particular oil will simply not run that oil, if another oil typically shows better results in the same or varied applications by registering lower FEs and better TBN retention.

I would be foolish not to, if I'm seeking the best oil for my application. After all there is no proven benefit to having consistently highers FEs, but there is potential benefit to having lower FEs--and the same goes with TBN retention. It's not really that hard. And if its not that simple; then its largely pointless no matter how educated we make our ambiguous hypothesis sound.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: T-Stick


I, for one, if comparing multiple UOAs in the same or varied applications notice a consistently higher trend of FEs in a particular oil will simply not run that oil, if another oil typically shows better results in the same or varied applications by registering lower FEs and better TBN retention.

I would be foolish not to, if I'm seeking the best oil for my application. After all there is no proven benefit to having consistently highers FEs, but there is potential benefit to having lower FEs--and the same goes with TBN retention. It's not really that hard. And if its not that simple; then its largely pointless no matter how educated we make our ambiguous hypothesis sound.

Why iron PPM numbers are NOT good wear indicators.

And for those that didn't click on the Doug Hillary article that QP linked:

Quote:
Single pass (random) UOAs will provide some information regarding wear metals but unless you have a history of your engine’s performance up to around 1 million miles the results are simply that – UOA results! As an example a limit of 150ppm of Iron is a reality – after say 100k it means the lubricant should be changed and all is well. But what is the situation if you have 150ppm of Iron at 5k? Where would you look what would or could you do? So UOAs are really a diagnostic tool – one of many!

The other parts of the UOA Report will be much more valuable to you – it will tell you about the CONDITION of the lubricant and its suitability for further use. This will enable you to get the maximum safe use from the lubricant saving a valuable resource in the process.



-Dennis

 

[T-Stick]

I think most of us are well aware that you cannot draw conclusions from one UOA nor infer a particular wear ratio from a certain ppm level of FEs. However this still does not discount the fact that there are no proven benefits from high FEs and low FEs are a potential indicator of lower wear. Whether the ppms make any real difference or not--who knows--its unnecessary to quantify it. However I will still always choose an oil which shows low FEs over another showing high FES--all other aspects being largely equal. Its really that simple!