I've been using the P1 PL10241 In my BMW motorcycle for years. Recently on a BMW motorcycle forum, it was brought up that Purolator does not recommend their filters be used in motorcycles and to use MC specific filters. That has me worried. My options are to go with a Bosch 3330 or Mobil-1 M1-102 as opposed to going with a BMW filter that are more difficult for me to get locally. Do I need to worry, go with one of the others, or just go ahead and get the BMW spec filter?
P1 not OK for motorcycle use?
- Thread starter phatpony
- Start date
- Status
Bottom of the page, "highly recommend..." OTOH, you haven't had a problem "for years".
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/pages/motorcyclefilters.aspx
http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/pages/motorcyclefilters.aspx
That's because they want you to purchase their more expensive motorcycle filters that are made in China and have a lower efficiency rating. Lots of us are using PureOnes on motorcycles with no problems. Read more here: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Scroll down the page a bit for a discussion of the PureOne warning.
Scroll down the page a bit for a discussion of the PureOne warning.
Originally Posted By: phatpony
I've been using the P1 PL10241 In my BMW motorcycle for years. Recently on a BMW motorcycle forum, it was brought up that Purolator does not recommend their filters be used in motorcycles and to use MC specific filters. That has me worried. My options are to go with a Bosch 3330 or Mobil-1 M1-102 as opposed to going with a BMW filter that are more difficult for me to get locally. Do I need to worry, go with one of the others, or just go ahead and get the BMW spec filter?
If you been using P1s on your BMW for years and haven't had an engine-lubrication related problem, isn't that convincing enough?
I've been using the P1 PL10241 In my BMW motorcycle for years. Recently on a BMW motorcycle forum, it was brought up that Purolator does not recommend their filters be used in motorcycles and to use MC specific filters. That has me worried. My options are to go with a Bosch 3330 or Mobil-1 M1-102 as opposed to going with a BMW filter that are more difficult for me to get locally. Do I need to worry, go with one of the others, or just go ahead and get the BMW spec filter?
If you been using P1s on your BMW for years and haven't had an engine-lubrication related problem, isn't that convincing enough?
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
That's because they want you to purchase their more expensive motorcycle filters that are made in China and have a lower efficiency rating. Lots of us are using PureOnes on motorcycles with no problems. Read more here: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Scroll down the page a bit for a discussion of the PureOne warning.
From the excellent CALSCI site:
I recommend a Mobil-1 M1-110 or Purolator Pure One PL14610 if they fit your bike - check here. These filters stand out from all the alternatives as having superior filtering, excellent construction, and they're widely available at a reasonable price. I use the Pure One - it's half the price, and somewhat better due to having almost double the filter surface area.
That's because they want you to purchase their more expensive motorcycle filters that are made in China and have a lower efficiency rating. Lots of us are using PureOnes on motorcycles with no problems. Read more here: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Scroll down the page a bit for a discussion of the PureOne warning.
From the excellent CALSCI site:
I recommend a Mobil-1 M1-110 or Purolator Pure One PL14610 if they fit your bike - check here. These filters stand out from all the alternatives as having superior filtering, excellent construction, and they're widely available at a reasonable price. I use the Pure One - it's half the price, and somewhat better due to having almost double the filter surface area.
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
That's because they want you to purchase their more expensive motorcycle filters that are made in China and have a lower efficiency rating. Lots of us are using PureOnes on motorcycles with no problems. Read more here: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Scroll down the page a bit for a discussion of the PureOne warning.
Correct...companies always introduce new, more expensive specialized products to increase margins a bit...if they were really doing something so different with their motorcycles they would be eager to explain how they do it.
That's because they want you to purchase their more expensive motorcycle filters that are made in China and have a lower efficiency rating. Lots of us are using PureOnes on motorcycles with no problems. Read more here: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Scroll down the page a bit for a discussion of the PureOne warning.
Correct...companies always introduce new, more expensive specialized products to increase margins a bit...if they were really doing something so different with their motorcycles they would be eager to explain how they do it.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
I imagine some motor cycle users may make using passenger car filters inappropriate. Passenger cars don't typically have 9000+ rpm capability.
Thanks for the replies. I'll just stick with what I have been doing. Just want to make sure is all.
I'm curious though to the statement on Purolator's web site saying that because of their efficiency, they don't recommend them. What's that supposed to mean, the filters cause an undue amount of pressure on the pump side? If that was the case the bypass would open up, right? I wouldn't even begin to know if my filter was in bypass mode anyway, is there a way to know for sure?
Thanks again. This site is an awesome asset.
I'm curious though to the statement on Purolator's web site saying that because of their efficiency, they don't recommend them. What's that supposed to mean, the filters cause an undue amount of pressure on the pump side? If that was the case the bypass would open up, right? I wouldn't even begin to know if my filter was in bypass mode anyway, is there a way to know for sure?
Thanks again. This site is an awesome asset.
The older P1's were more restrictive than many automotive filters. Tests on this site show that is not the case for the current versions.
Many bikes used to, and some still use roller bearings in the engines. These use a low pressure, high volume oiling system. A restrictive filter may cause problems with these designs. The high pressure systems used in bikes with plain bearings, like BMW are not likely to be affected. At any rate, the current P1 filters are as free flowing or more so than many automotive filters.
Ed
Many bikes used to, and some still use roller bearings in the engines. These use a low pressure, high volume oiling system. A restrictive filter may cause problems with these designs. The high pressure systems used in bikes with plain bearings, like BMW are not likely to be affected. At any rate, the current P1 filters are as free flowing or more so than many automotive filters.
Ed
Well my Purolator motorcycle filters are made in Canada and were 4 bucks a piece.
From Purolator's website ... what it says about using a PureONE filter on a bike:
"What About PureONE
If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter."
The statement in red is puzzling to me ... not very clear on the intent IMO.
Are they trying to say that a motorcycles oil pump may not put out enough pressure to ensure a good oil flow through the filter?
Fact is, the oil pump in a bike is still a positive displacement oil pump which has a max oil pressure relief setting of somewhere around 70 ~ 90 PSI. And as most know by now around here, almost any oil filter will only produce a few PSID of pressure drop with hot oil, even with pretty high flow volume (ie, 5 ~ 10 GPM).
The oil pump output volume on a bike isn't going to be as high as a big Hi-Pro V8 (say 10 GPM), so I really can't see any real issue with using a PureONE on a bike unless the oil pump is some super wimpy low pressure, non positive displacement design.
"What About PureONE
If you're thinking you want to install a PureONE oil filter on your bike, please think again. PureONE oil filters are designed for vehicles, not bikes. Because of PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure. The Purolator motorcycle filter line is designed to meet the specific needs of a bike; therefore we highly recommend the use of a Purolator ML filter over a PureONE oil filter."
The statement in red is puzzling to me ... not very clear on the intent IMO.
Are they trying to say that a motorcycles oil pump may not put out enough pressure to ensure a good oil flow through the filter?
Fact is, the oil pump in a bike is still a positive displacement oil pump which has a max oil pressure relief setting of somewhere around 70 ~ 90 PSI. And as most know by now around here, almost any oil filter will only produce a few PSID of pressure drop with hot oil, even with pretty high flow volume (ie, 5 ~ 10 GPM).
The oil pump output volume on a bike isn't going to be as high as a big Hi-Pro V8 (say 10 GPM), so I really can't see any real issue with using a PureONE on a bike unless the oil pump is some super wimpy low pressure, non positive displacement design.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
I imagine that it's the potential for the broad range of rpms that the engine may be capable of. Having an acceptable volume at idle on an engine with some radical (by passenger car standards) upper stratospheric rev limit might tip some of our reasoning scales a bit.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
It would be nice if someone with the real mojo on mc engines (those where this has been an issue) could rationalize the blanket "cover our behind" blanket statement.
One obvious difference in the specs on some of these filters is in the bypass setting. The ML16817 motorcycle filter spec'd for my motorcycle has a bypass setting of 9-12 psi. The PL14610, which I actually use, has a bypass setting of 14-18 psi. The shorter, fatter PL14459 is at 12-15 psi. I suppose that could translate to slightly less oil pressure at the engine.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I imagine that it's the potential for the broad range of rpms that the engine may be capable of. Having an acceptable volume at idle on an engine with some radical (by passenger car standards) upper stratospheric rev limit might tip some of our reasoning scales a bit.
Doesn't really matter what the max RPM level is ... the oil pump should have a pressure relief to limit the oil supply pressure to the engine. Instead of limiting the oil pressure to 70 PSI at 4000 RPM on a V8, maybe it takes 10,000 RPM on the bike engine. The filter doesn't care or know how much RPM is being used to produce the max oil pressure ... all it cares about is the max oil pressure and corresponding oil flow rate.
I imagine that it's the potential for the broad range of rpms that the engine may be capable of. Having an acceptable volume at idle on an engine with some radical (by passenger car standards) upper stratospheric rev limit might tip some of our reasoning scales a bit.
Doesn't really matter what the max RPM level is ... the oil pump should have a pressure relief to limit the oil supply pressure to the engine. Instead of limiting the oil pressure to 70 PSI at 4000 RPM on a V8, maybe it takes 10,000 RPM on the bike engine. The filter doesn't care or know how much RPM is being used to produce the max oil pressure ... all it cares about is the max oil pressure and corresponding oil flow rate.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
Thanks, Supe. The point was that you have minimum volume at idle and an extreme operational span of pump/engine speed.
Does that alter your rhetorical response now that you're tuned in??
It would be more like our all time poster boy of extraordinary volume, the 15gpm Soobie ..except at about double the rev's.
Now we all know that relief is one assured dimension in producing PSID ..but ...and I think it was you who actually took us into the high speed/high volume/high performance realm ..we also have the volume limits on the filter itself ..where it actually becomes a part of the total resistance equation (of merit).
Does that alter your rhetorical response now that you're tuned in??
It would be more like our all time poster boy of extraordinary volume, the 15gpm Soobie ..except at about double the rev's.
Now we all know that relief is one assured dimension in producing PSID ..but ...and I think it was you who actually took us into the high speed/high volume/high performance realm ..we also have the volume limits on the filter itself ..where it actually becomes a part of the total resistance equation (of merit).
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Thanks, Supe. The point was that you have minimum volume at idle and an extreme operational span of pump/engine speed.
Does that alter your rhetorical response now that you're tuned in??
It would be more like our all time poster boy of extraordinary volume, the 15gpm Soobie ..except at about double the rev's.
Now we all know that relief is one assured dimension in producing PSID ..but ...and I think it was you who actually took us into the high speed/high volume/high performance realm ..we also have the volume limits on the filter itself ..where it actually becomes a part of the total resistance equation (of merit).
The oil pump on a high performance motorcycle doesn't produce 10+ GPM of oil flow, even if it does rev to 12,000 RPM. The oil pumps are physically smaller than those in automobiles, and even with twice the RPM they still don't put out as much.
And motorcycles don't put out any higher oil pressure than most autos ... the oil pressure relief valve is typically running somewhere between 70 ~ 90 PSI on most bikes.
We all know that you can't force any more oil down the gullet of the oiling system than what the oil viscosity at the max oil pressure will allow to flow - ie, when the pump is in relief and the oil pressure is maximum. What can't go down the oiling circuit gets spit back to the sump.
So, a motorcycle's oiling system is no more high flow or high pressure than most auto engines. The oil filters on bikes are typically fairly small because their oil flow volume is not as high as you might think.
Purolator's statement for why their automobile filters shouldn't be used on a bike really makes no sense. If they flow well enough for a 400+ HP Vette or 12+ GPM Subaru, then they should flow just as well for a 200 HP superbike.
Thanks, Supe. The point was that you have minimum volume at idle and an extreme operational span of pump/engine speed.
Does that alter your rhetorical response now that you're tuned in??
It would be more like our all time poster boy of extraordinary volume, the 15gpm Soobie ..except at about double the rev's.
Now we all know that relief is one assured dimension in producing PSID ..but ...and I think it was you who actually took us into the high speed/high volume/high performance realm ..we also have the volume limits on the filter itself ..where it actually becomes a part of the total resistance equation (of merit).
The oil pump on a high performance motorcycle doesn't produce 10+ GPM of oil flow, even if it does rev to 12,000 RPM. The oil pumps are physically smaller than those in automobiles, and even with twice the RPM they still don't put out as much.
And motorcycles don't put out any higher oil pressure than most autos ... the oil pressure relief valve is typically running somewhere between 70 ~ 90 PSI on most bikes.
We all know that you can't force any more oil down the gullet of the oiling system than what the oil viscosity at the max oil pressure will allow to flow - ie, when the pump is in relief and the oil pressure is maximum. What can't go down the oiling circuit gets spit back to the sump.
So, a motorcycle's oiling system is no more high flow or high pressure than most auto engines. The oil filters on bikes are typically fairly small because their oil flow volume is not as high as you might think.
Purolator's statement for why their automobile filters shouldn't be used on a bike really makes no sense. If they flow well enough for a 400+ HP Vette or 12+ GPM Subaru, then they should flow just as well for a 200 HP superbike.
My Honda VFR uses the same size and thread filter as my moms Outback with the H6. The bypass pressure is almost a direct match, too. I would have zero problems using a PureONE PL14459 meant for her car on my motorcycle. If it had the funny looking Isle of Man bypass valve, I wouldn't, but this model uses a coil spring and plunger type.
- Status
