Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
Not sure why you have to get political, but they probably spend a lot less on it overall...
Canada's oil prices are only slightly higher than ours IIRC...
OW-16 vs 0W-20 viscosity specs - does it really matter.
- Thread starter SC Maintenance
- Start date
Not sure why you have to get political, but they probably spend a lot less on it overall...
Canada's oil prices are only slightly higher than ours IIRC...
Not political, but factual..... And financial.
Yes I posted that in my original post. But my question is Since those are HTHS minimums and the viscosities overlap do we really know if a thick 16 has less HTHS than a “thin” 20. I am asking not telling? Are HTHS numbers published somewhere or are we all speculating?
Of course the easy answer is run 5w-30 and forget about it. And I Am not buying 16 anymore. I am still interested however.
delete
Last edited:
I think it would take a pretty unique oil formulation for a 16 to have a higher HTHS than the minimum spec for a 20. In that case, a xW-16 would have to have a HTHS of 2.6 or higher. For a grade to meet an SAE grade spec, it must meet all the specs shown in SAE J300. If a 16 actually had a HTHS of 2.6 or above, then it's KV100 would probably also fall within the overlap region of the 16 & 20, and then it would have to fall into the 20 grade.
To add to my post above, if you look at the "No-VII Series" of PCMO oil from HPL, even with no VIIs in the formulation their xW-20 HTHS is still not above the J300 30 grade HTHS minimum of 2.9 cP, and their xW-30 is still not above the 40 HTHS minimum of 3.5 cP.
In their Euro "No-VII" formulations, their HTHS barely breaks through the HTHS of the next SAE grade up. But their KV40, KV100 and CCS viscosity are also higher than the PCMO series, so they are starting with a thicker base oil. So with the right base oil and no-VIIs it's possible to have a SAE xW-20 grade with a HTHS above the min for a xW-30, and a xW-30 with a HTHS above the min for a xW-40.
In their Euro "No-VII" formulations, their HTHS barely breaks through the HTHS of the next SAE grade up. But their KV40, KV100 and CCS viscosity are also higher than the PCMO series, so they are starting with a thicker base oil. So with the right base oil and no-VIIs it's possible to have a SAE xW-20 grade with a HTHS above the min for a xW-30, and a xW-30 with a HTHS above the min for a xW-40.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The HTHS minimums don't overlap though. If the 16 has an HTHS of 2.6cP and above, as @ZeeOSix noted, the KV100 would almost assuredly be in the 0W-20 range, making it a 0W-20.
Like with the fact we typically see 2.6-2.7cP HTHS figures for the xW-20's when published, I expect we'll see the same, being 2.3-2.4cP for the 0W-16 oils.
I confess that I have not read all nine pages, 167 posts, but intend to go back shortly and do so. I have read many though, as this has me very interested lately.
Watch this video from 6:23 to 10:55. Sorry if this has been posted and commented on already.
As I have stated on other posts, I have recently purchased a '21 RAV4, used with 30k miles. Certified used from a Toyota dealer.
The dealer changed the oil before I purchased, and (at least according to the repair order copy that I was given upon request), they used GTMO 0W-16 and an OEM filter.
I have an upcoming trip planned from NC to CO and back, 3k miles. Will be driving for hours on end at 75 MPH in late summer.
I had already purchased Castrol EDGE 0W-20 and a Fram Titanium filter and planned to change it out before the trip. Now after watching this video, I'm starting to second guess a bit.
I don't want to put words in the OP mouth, but it seems like he kept trying to bring the conversation back to the facts rather than just another mindless thick vs thin debate.
So, I want to know, what is the (perceived) fear or risk of running 0W-16 oil, like I said, for 75 MPH for hours on end during the summer?
What would be the (perceived) advantage of running 0W-20 oil in those same conditions?
Watch this video from 6:23 to 10:55. Sorry if this has been posted and commented on already.
As I have stated on other posts, I have recently purchased a '21 RAV4, used with 30k miles. Certified used from a Toyota dealer.
The dealer changed the oil before I purchased, and (at least according to the repair order copy that I was given upon request), they used GTMO 0W-16 and an OEM filter.
I have an upcoming trip planned from NC to CO and back, 3k miles. Will be driving for hours on end at 75 MPH in late summer.
I had already purchased Castrol EDGE 0W-20 and a Fram Titanium filter and planned to change it out before the trip. Now after watching this video, I'm starting to second guess a bit.
I don't want to put words in the OP mouth, but it seems like he kept trying to bring the conversation back to the facts rather than just another mindless thick vs thin debate.
So, I want to know, what is the (perceived) fear or risk of running 0W-16 oil, like I said, for 75 MPH for hours on end during the summer?
What would be the (perceived) advantage of running 0W-20 oil in those same conditions?
I have the Dynamic Force 2.5 L in my 2018 Camry. I ran 0w16 some at first, but, quickly moved over to 0w20. I noticed NO difference in mpg. I drove it with three adults and luggage from Charlotte to Chicago and back, twice, and all four legs of the trip got over 40 mpg. One leg, I averaged 71 mpg including two dead-stops on the Interstate. Some of that trip I was going 90 mph on the downhills. Mostly set Cruise on about 76 mph when possible according to traffic and assuming I was on Interstate with a 70 mph limit. Car now has over 90,000 miles on it. Hasn't blown up, doesn't use any measurable amount of oil between changes (5000-7500 miles...but, about to go 10,000 on HPL's PCMO 0w20). I THINK 0w20 may have a bit more "headroom" in case of the electric water pump stopping, as the temps could skyrocket pretty quick at highway speeds prior to being able to slow down and stop to let it cool off before limping off the highway to get help.
The dealer probably fills all of the cars they service with bulk 0w20 for simplicity and reduced complexity, and is actually doing owners a favor.
Toyota knows running 0W-20 will pose no problems, otherwise they wouldn't say in the OM that 0W-20 is OK to run for an entire OCI, which could be 10K miles. The OM says to switch back to 0W-16 because they are required to by CAFE. Anyone understanding the basics of Tribology would know why a bit more MOFT headroom is obtained due to a thicker oil, and why it's beneficial to engine protection.
Last edited:
I appreciate your post. I think most of my questions did finally get answered in posts 165 through 167 above. Now if you want to debate HTHS - that's a different thread. Ha Ha.
As for car care nut video - he should likely stick to videos on replacing starters, not engineering, because he is clearly lost on the lubrication system design and purpose.
Obviously you should use whatever oil you feel is best for your car. But make your own decision - don't listen to car care nut - or me either for that matter.
You can read a lot more about the engine here: https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/18-03-20_faq_df_r4_eng.htm#google_vignette
All you 0w20 thickies, use 0w16 as the engineers intended. They know best. 
Do you care to expound on that (a little bit without going too deep) for those of us whom do NOT have an understanding of the basics of Tribology?
It still cracks me up to think of 0W-20 as "thicky". I remember the late 70's when four cylinders started coming out and 5W-30 was thought of like we think of 0W-8 now. Now there are people that would never dream of putting 5W-30 in their engine because it is way too thick. Times they are a changin'.All you 0w20 thickies, use 0w16 as the engineers intended. They know best.
The basic law of Tribology that never changes is that the film thickness between moving parts (the main mechanism that keeps parts from rubbing and wearing) increases as the viscosity increases (all other factors held constant). If the film thickness between moving parts becomes too small, then metal-to-metal contact starts to happen and only the film strength (the sacrificial tribofilm on surfaces created by the AF/AW additives) is there to help mitigate and reduce wear.
But the oil viscosity is the main parameter that keeps moving parts separated and wearing - the sacrificial tribofilm is only there as a back-up when the film thickness fails to do its job. So a thicker oil (more KV100/HTHS viscosity) will increase that film thickness and help give more MOFT headroom to reduce engine wear.
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
It is why I'm rockin a home blend 0W-24 Mobil 1
Perhaps but still within the tolerance band for the grade(s).
Similar threads
