On car salespeople and lying

[gfh77665]

My best defense: Stay out of the dealerships as much as possible.

Drive your existing car as long as you can, then try to find a newer one from a friend or family member.

 

[rjundi]

Customers lie too.

My dad took a Jeep CJ-7 into multiple dealerships that was in incredible shape except for a major rod knock. Most picked up on it so keep moving to the next Toyota dealer until he found a clueless salesmen who did evaluation and gave full trade in value and then my dad got an excellent price on on a 4x4 pickup too. He was not lying when he stated to salesman it was in excellent shape just neglected to mention the massive rod knock.

Most dealerships were knocking $2000 off Jeep trade in to cover off its issue.

Salesmen rarely know all the facts on a car they just help along the sale. If you are buying used buyer beware or pay for CPO.

 

[Kestas]

I remember my dad buying a new car on the Ford A plan. There was no haggling on the price. He knew walking in what the price would be.

But he needed to finance the car. He knew what the rates were as well. The dealer brought in a rather glib character who started to do a lot of double talking and showed some numbers. When my dad gat a chance to speak, he showed them his numbers, which he calculated at home. I could see the visible change in the fast talker's face. He had to walk away with his tail between his legs.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
He was not lying when he stated to salesman it was in excellent shape just neglected to mention the massive rod knock.


It's called lying by omission.

===Lying by omission===
Also known as a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. When the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly but does not tell that a fault was reported at the last service, the seller lies by omission. It can be compared to [[dissimulation]].

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: strat81

Customers lie.

I post this not to say that car salesmen are awesome. Rather, the deceit is a two-way street.


Those naughty customers!

Maybe we should call them "custostealers". Sort of like "stealerships", only with the shoe on the other foot.

 

[IndyIan]

Any reason not to buy your next car privately? That way you can see what type of person owned the car before you?
It may take more time and travel but I imagine you can still pay yourself 100's per hour on the difference in price.
I always get the impression that M type cars are either at a slimey used dealership, or at a new car dealership at an inflated price. If I was in the market for those type cars, I'd rather buy right from the owner with a well kept house and all the records.

 

[dlundblad]

I had a guy accuse me of lying over a CL ad when I told him what my asking price was. He said it was too high and that he'd pass. I told him that was fine because I had 3 other interested people. He said oh whatever. Blah blah.. I just said check the ad tomorrow at this time and see if it's still up. He was the one I sold it to and I got my asking price.

It's hard to trust people. Trust yourself and be truthful. But at first, don't trust the person wanting money or a good..

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted By: jmsjags

I had another guy that I greeted that told me he was going to service. So I showed him where the service department was and wished him well. A minute later, my manager comes out the front door and chews me out because a customer walked right up to the sales tower and started asking the manager questions about the Camaro. I then walked in the showroom and found the guy and asked him what questions he had. "Oh, I don't have any questions I'm just looking around." So this guy lied to me and got me in trouble with my manager. Thanks.

I could go on and on about some of the rude, blatant liars we had walk onto our lot. It definitely takes thick skin to work in the car business.


Hate to tell you this, but that was your manager lying to you. It's a great way to show you where you could have made a sale (someone needing service is a great prospect for a sale)

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: strat81
I used to sell cars. I also spent some time in a service department as a service writer.

Customers lie.

"I have great credit."
No you don't. According to your credit report, you haven't paid anyone for anything in three years. But I'm sure the credit bureau is "in on it" and "out to get you."

"I don't have a trade-in."
Then why do you have a vehicle title in your front pocket? Were you gonna whip that out at the end of the deal or do you just carry it around for fun?

"I just spoke to the other dealer across town and he offered me the same vehicle for $8k less than what you're offering."
Really? He offered $8k less than us on a $22k vehicle we've already dropped $3k on? IOW, he offered you vehicle at 50% off MSRP? If he did, we'd be down there buying his cars to put on our lot.

"My trade-in is *clean*. Virtually perfect."
There's hail damage on the roof, hood, and trunk. The driver's door has been repainted. There are three different brands of tires on it. Your headlights aren't aimed correctly because the bracket they mount to is crumpled like a piece of paper.

"I've been driving stick for years."
Ka-thunk. *stall*

I had a few customers that wouldn't even shake my hand and/or tell me their names when I introduced myself. Really? You act uncivilized and now you want a deal? Ha.


I post this not to say that car salesmen are awesome. Rather, the deceit is a two-way street.

Sure, some customers do lie. But upon reflection I think some do simply in order to protect themselves from the deserved reputation of most dealers. It's best to be honest though, of course.
I do differ on one item you brought up...."I don't have a trade in" scenario. I know that if I do intend on trading a vehicle in, no way I'm telling the sales person. I don't lie....I just tell them I want to come to an agreement FIRST about the out-the-door price of the vehicle I intend to buy BEFORE I decide if I want to trade anything in. You and I know full well what a dealership does when some unsuspecting customer blurts out..."I am trading in my car" before any pricing decisions have been made. Manipulation of a trade in with numbers and shifty tactics is ALWAYS what EVERY single car dealer I've ever been to does. They make you think that you are getting some great deal on your trade (over book usually) while they scam you on the other end.....often in the form of inflated 'fees' and such for the dreaded 'dealer prep'. Very common.

 

[aquariuscsm]

The classic line of [censored] I hate the most is when appraising your trade-in,they ALWAYS say right before they low ball you,"The market is soft of your model of car right now". Yep,car salesmen are rip off artists.

Best time to shop for a car is when you "want" a new car,NEVER when you need one.

 

[Bladecutter]

If money is involved, people are willing to lie in order to make/keep more of it.

Every large financial transaction I've been involved in, I've learned some new things.
My CX-5 purchase was a better experience than my Mazda RX-8 purchase, which was better than my Porsche Boxster purchase, which was better than my Altima purchase, which was way better than my Park Avenue purchase, and that one was by a country mile way, way, way better than the old '82 Monte Carlo I bought when I was 22.

If you do enough transactions, you learn what you're willing to deal with, and how to spot behavior you won't ever tolerate.

During the CX-5 shopping, one dealer I went to low-balled me so bad on the RX-8, that I just started laughing, and I left. Another dealer I went to, I asked them to go get the keys to the car so that I could test drive it, and it took the guy over 5 minutes to go get them. After the fifth minute of standing outside in the cold next to the car, my friend and I left.

My phone started ringing shortly after I left, and I told them that it sucks being left out in the cold, and I'm never setting foot on their lot ever again. I've kept that promise.

The dealer I bought my RX-8 from didn't have what I wanted in stock, or on it's way, so I went on to the dealer I wound up buying my CX-5 from. They gave me a realistic trade in value for the RX-8, they gave me all the rebates and financing I was eligible for through Mazda, and, at the end of the day, they increased their trade in offer on the RX-8 after I badgered them with it for long enough.

Oddly enough, I used used car dealer tactics on a New car dealer, and it completely worked in an equitable manner for both of us. I was very happy with the trade in price, I was happy with the purchase price, and I just sat in a chair and was happy and laughing during the whole process. At first they were completely thrown off with my approach, but eventually, they dropped the typical hook line sinker approach, and just worked with me on what would make me close the deal right then and there.

I can't control that people lie about things for the rest of you, but I can control when I lie, and when I tell the complete truth. If the rest of you do the same, and can get all of your friends to do the same, the world would be a better place.

BC.

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: strat81
... the deceit is a two-way street.

And I'll bet that the care salesmen of the world started it first.


People have been lying to each other in commerce long before the first automobile was built.

And they'll continue to lie once we have progressed beyond the automobile.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Most of you had bad experiences with car sale person, I had opposite experience. I bought my last 4-5 cars online, just came in to sign paper works and paid with cashier check, get in the car and drove off. No trade-in, no finance therefore no problems.

I also bought several cars for my relatives/friends the same way, get the best price online with pre approved finance from credit union. Walk in on appointment time and drove off in less than 1 hour.

 

[andyd]

Heh Heh what are these car dealerships you speak of? I bought my first 528e from a used car salesman. That was in '96 Lately, my cars are fugitives from the crusher. Marina's 528e was a low mileage cream puff when I bought from a guy who picked it up at an auction. I spent about 300 for parts to ensure a decent reliability. I have spent maybe a 1000$ in parts since I put it on the road in '07 with 75 K miles on it. I spent maybe 400 refreshing stuff at 150k. The end is nowhere in sight for this car. My 528e is a total, I paid 550$ for it with 117 k on it. Both cars came with a Carfax.They were good for corroborating the mileage, but not much else. The E 28 is a well engineered car that BMW made to last. Slow by modern standards,I can maintain the car myself with basic hand tools. The Ranger is a toy/yard tool. Being a Ford, it isn't rocket surgery to fix. Patience acquired by 62 yrs of living helps greatly with the Rat

 

[hattaresguy]

I never had any trouble buying or selling things, but I trade around real estate for a living so negotiating is something I can do while working out or drinking a beer on my boat. I think people make to big of a deal out of car buying, its so simple in this day and age.

With a vehicle in these days of the interweb its cake. Unless you want something odd and rare their are probably 10k of them listed on Autotrader. Go online, drag up the 3-4 dealers your willing to drive to, that have the car you want listed. Start calling and dealing. Within a day or so you will have your low price, also be realistic. If the car is worth $32k, your not getting it for $29k so don't cry. Again the dealers will settle around a low number, that's the number. Go in, hand them a check, sign and drive off.

For example watching 2014 Chevy Silverado's on Autotrader; say an LT 4x4, 5.3, double cab I can tell you that right now $10k off MSRP is about what you will pay. Plus or minus a bit for various options, and what dealer wants to make the sale more.

Simple stuff really, you should see some of the property deals I negotiate, some take years. When I buy my new truck I'm going to do it on the back of my boat with nothing but my Iphone, without ever darkening a dealerships door.

Dealerships are not in control, unless A, you have to have a car, or B its rare and their are a limited number. Other than that, they have really very little negotiating power, most vehicles are commodities.

 

[turtlevette]

I think dealerships are an albatross for manufacturers. If someone is dumb enough to pay 10k over sticker they'll take it. Every other thing in the world we buy has a reasonable and logical price without the games.

Fire the dealers. Price the product reasonably as a take it or leave it. If we bought cars like we buy everything else, I don't think the public would be so apprehensive.

I'll drive the wheels off my stuff before I go back for more abuse.

 

[apwillard1986]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I think dealerships are an albatross for manufacturers. If someone is dumb enough to pay 10k over sticker they'll take it. Every other thing in the world we buy has a reasonable and logical price without the games.

Fire the dealers. Price the product reasonably as a take it or leave it. If we bought cars like we buy everything else, I don't think the public would be so apprehensive.

I'll drive the wheels off my stuff before I go back for more abuse.



You don’t want to buy cars like you buy everything else. The average retail markup on new cars is 2-5%. That assumes a customer pays sticker which almost no one does. For comparison the average retail markup on “everything else” is:

Clothing: 100+%
Shoes: 100+%
Cell Phones: 8%
Furniture: 200+%
Grocery: 10+%
Medication: 200+%

I do agree that the best practice is to buy a vehicle and keep it. It is the soundest financial decision. Due to improvements in manufacturing, materials, and engineering, modern vehicles have the capacity to reliably last a very long time. I treat my vehicles like appliances. I buy them, take care of them as well as possible, and replace them when they wear out.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I'll drive the wheels off my stuff before I go back for more abuse.


+1,000,000

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: apwillard1986
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I think dealerships are an albatross for manufacturers. If someone is dumb enough to pay 10k over sticker they'll take it. Every other thing in the world we buy has a reasonable and logical price without the games.

Fire the dealers. Price the product reasonably as a take it or leave it. If we bought cars like we buy everything else, I don't think the public would be so apprehensive.

I'll drive the wheels off my stuff before I go back for more abuse.



You don’t want to buy cars like you buy everything else. The average retail markup on new cars is 2-5%. That assumes a customer pays sticker which almost no one does. For comparison the average retail markup on “everything else” is:

Clothing: 100+%
Shoes: 100+%
Cell Phones: 8%
Furniture: 200+%
Grocery: 10+%
Medication: 200+%

I do agree that the best practice is to buy a vehicle and keep it. It is the soundest financial decision. Due to improvements in manufacturing, materials, and engineering, modern vehicles have the capacity to reliably last a very long time. I treat my vehicles like appliances. I buy them, take care of them as well as possible, and replace them when they wear out.


Except 100% or 200% markup on a $30 sweater isn't going to change my financial picture like say 100% markup on a Camry.

(I tend to buy from LL Bean, they have tall sizes and the stuff is good quality at a competitive price

)

Each market has chosen it's means of selling. I do realize dealers have a significant investment in facilities, floor planning inventory, training techs, etc.

I also suspect that for every one of us who buys at or below invoice minus rebates and brings in our own financing, there are folks who show up with a low credit score and are simply hoping the dealership can get them bought by a bank or CU. They don't really care what the price is. If they can get approved for a note they can afford, they'll buy the car.

So for those who need the dealerships connections with the money people, the dealership is the place for them.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: strat81
I used to sell cars. I also spent some time in a service department as a service writer.

Customers lie.

"I have great credit."
No you don't. According to your credit report, you haven't paid anyone for anything in three years. But I'm sure the credit bureau is "in on it" and "out to get you."

"I don't have a trade-in."
Then why do you have a vehicle title in your front pocket? Were you gonna whip that out at the end of the deal or do you just carry it around for fun?

"I just spoke to the other dealer across town and he offered me the same vehicle for $8k less than what you're offering."
Really? He offered $8k less than us on a $22k vehicle we've already dropped $3k on? IOW, he offered you vehicle at 50% off MSRP? If he did, we'd be down there buying his cars to put on our lot.

"My trade-in is *clean*. Virtually perfect."
There's hail damage on the roof, hood, and trunk. The driver's door has been repainted. There are three different brands of tires on it. Your headlights aren't aimed correctly because the bracket they mount to is crumpled like a piece of paper.

"I've been driving stick for years."
Ka-thunk. *stall*

I had a few customers that wouldn't even shake my hand and/or tell me their names when I introduced myself. Really? You act uncivilized and now you want a deal? Ha.


I post this not to say that car salesmen are awesome. Rather, the deceit is a two-way street.


I agree with you, we probably could compare notes and easily write a novel.

Good sales people don't lie, they modify the truth to fit the question or situation at hand. LOL

On a more serious note: I've been in one form of sales or another all my life, and taught people how to sell, here's what I've learned. All customers lie, not just the sales people. Some people lie better than others, the person who lies the least usually does the best. People aren't stupid, and most smart people have a built in B_S meter, the key to a good salesman is not to trip the customer's B_S meter. Mine is quite keen, and when someone is B_S'ing me it trips the meter and they lose the sale, no matter how good the deal might have been.