On car salespeople and lying

[whip]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: whip
The job of a sales person is to sell the product for the most amount of money. In this day, if you get taken, it's your fault. I don't understand the outrage over this.


Being outraged is the job of the customer in order to get the best price.

It works both ways!

Being educated about the product and the cost of the product will help you more than being outraged.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I left car sales to move back to bigger and better, I got tired of the long hours and B_S from management. BTW the real money makers were the F&I managers, the salesmen were usually the pawns.


I.E. you're too honest to be in car sales. You didn't fit in.

 

[antiqueshell]

Something that has been forgotten is that the car $tealership is supposedly staffed by sales "professionals". That title means that the staff should be reasonable, knowledgeable, and interested in what BOTH the business and the customer wants and needs. A balance should be stuck between the two.

Unfortunately most $tlealership staff are UNprofessional, and
often times outrageous in their behavior.

The customer should not be expected to be a professional. I agree that both parties should be honest, but the $tealership bears the brunt of responsibility. It is their job and profession.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I left car sales to move back to bigger and better, I got tired of the long hours and B_S from management. BTW the real money makers were the F&I managers, the salesmen were usually the pawns.


I.E. you're too honest to be in car sales. You didn't fit in.



I did quite well. My biggest beef was management screwing me out of deals, bonus money, fake charge backs every chance they got. Still it was a good learning experience, taught me how to buy a car, and help friends and family get the best deal possible on a car.

 

[Mystic]

If you were still a car salesman demarpaint I would definitely want you to be the salesman dealing with me. Because you are a cool, straight talking guy.

I bought Saturns for a long time and I liked how they sold cars. It was one price depending on the equipment on the car and no games. But the older style of selling cars was also good if you could find a good dealership and good salesman (or saleswoman) and if they had some good deals going. Because the old way was also good if they had some decent deals and the sales people were allowed to negotiate on the price. A person just had to be good at negotiating for a good price.

Finding a good dealership is very important. For example Toyotas are good cars (I owned one used one and one new one) but I would never buy a car from the Toyota dealership that is near me ever again. Unless they have changed I have nothing good to say about them. In fact one of their mechanics and the service manager were in jail for a while on Work Release. People do not realize that you are not just buying a new car-you are for all practical purposes buying a dealership also.

If you buy a new car you are going to be dealing with the dealership also. So you better not just choose a good car but also chose a good dealership.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: whip
The job of a sales person is to sell the product for the most amount of money. In this day, if you get taken, it's your fault. I don't understand the outrage over this.


Being outraged is the job of the customer in order to get the best price.

It works both ways!

Being educated about the product and the cost of the product will help you more than being outraged.


I was referring to outrage as a tactic.

There's a lot of false outrage in society these days and it seems to work. Many use it as a substitute for facts. It doesn't help in most situations but may help when negotiating price.

 

[TrevorS]

My experience with sales people is that if you're a genuinely nice person you'll do well. You'll get recommendations and business will come your way. If that happens then management will love you and leave you to your formula. Simple as that.

Now I don't deal with car sales people as much as I deal with sales people who can make 7 figures a year but the principles of sales are similar.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
If you were still a car salesman demarpaint I would definitely want you to be the salesman dealing with me. Because you are a cool, straight talking guy.

I bought Saturns for a long time and I liked how they sold cars. It was one price depending on the equipment on the car and no games. But the older style of selling cars was also good if you could find a good dealership and good salesman (or saleswoman) and if they had some good deals going. Because the old way was also good if they had some decent deals and the sales people were allowed to negotiate on the price. A person just had to be good at negotiating for a good price.

Finding a good dealership is very important. For example Toyotas are good cars (I owned one used one and one new one) but I would never buy a car from the Toyota dealership that is near me ever again. Unless they have changed I have nothing good to say about them. In fact one of their mechanics and the service manager were in jail for a while on Work Release. People do not realize that you are not just buying a new car-you are for all practical purposes buying a dealership also.

If you buy a new car you are going to be dealing with the dealership also. So you better not just choose a good car but also chose a good dealership.


I worked in high volume dealerships, one place did 1,000+ cars a month. The GM and F&I manager made the big money. I was allowed to close my own deals, and they made me a closer for a while. That was short lived because there was no $$$ in it for me from management. Basically I was doing the managers job w/o the pay. SCREW that! They wanted the new salesman to split the deals that I closed for them. That wasn't fair to me or the salesman. I did have a nice following, and some nice referrals.

The real problem was the bookkeeping. Every pay day the salesmen would go into the bookkeepers office complaining of being short changed. That got old too. After talking with others who sold cars in the Long Island market anyone who worked for the big players had the same complaints. That's why the turnover rate of salesmen was so high.

I think if I worked for a high end dealership it might have been different. I made some good friends and some good money, but being my own boss is where its at. I still get to sell, and enjoy every minute of it.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I remember in the late 80's early 90's I went to Nissan dealer to buy the Maxima. At that time the V6 engine had single cam and 2 valves, the Nissan sale man keeps saying that Maxima has 16 valves engine. I told him that Maxima has 6 cylinders how 16 valves fit on 6 cylinders, he didn't care and keep saying it has 16 valves engine. I went to a Honda dealer and bought an Accord instead. After this experience I only bought my other cars online.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I remember in the late 80's early 90's I went to Nissan dealer to buy the Maxima. At that time the V6 engine had single cam and 2 valves, the Nissan sale man keeps saying that Maxima has 16 valves engine. I told him that Maxima has 6 cylinders how 16 valves fit on 6 cylinders, he didn't care and keep saying it has 16 valves engine. I went to a Honda dealer and bought an Accord instead. After this experience I only bought my other cars online.


The worst thing a sales person can do is be wrong and insist he's right. I remember my first day selling cars it was for a KIA dealer. It was on a dare the day before, when a buddy who was a manager said to me on a Saturday afternoon why not try selling cars tomorrow, you'd be good at it. I took him up on it. I knew nothing about KIA, in fact I hated the brand at the time [for the record this was 2001 and KIA has come a lonnnnnnnnnnnnng way]. A customer was asking me questions I answered the first question totally wrong, he corrected me. I laughed and told him in a nice way it was my first day and he'd be better selling them than me. It was my first up and my first sale. LOL Some people should try being honest once in a while, it works........

As far as buying cars, I only do it online.

 

[linkbelt]

I hate trying to deal with a car "salesman". They spend all day, everyday trying to figure out how extract the most money out of a buyer. I dont buy that many new cars, so I cant compete with "these people" and dont try.

On buying my last new car, (about one year ago), I did my homework and then contacted dealer internet managers about prices. My deal was made by email and one phone call.
After getting a fair price, I just went to dealer with check in hand and drove away in my new car.
Took about 30 min. Never saw the internet manager, ( did not want to), or have to deal with any salesman. Dealer was very nice, no attempted tricks or price add ons.
I think its the best way to buy a car.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: linkbelt


On buying my last new car, (about one year ago), I did my homework and then contacted dealer internet managers about prices. My deal was made by email and one phone call.
After getting a fair price, I just went to dealer with check in hand and drove away in my new car.
Took about 30 min. Never saw the internet manager, ( did not want to), or have to deal with any salesman. Dealer was very nice, no attempted tricks or price add ons.
I think its the best way to buy a car.



I think so too. Around here they typically respond wanting you to visit the dealer to discuss the features and for a test drive. So it takes a few emails back and forth to politely spell out that I test drove the car, know the features and want his best price, out the door, with no bogus fees, or I move on. That usually works, if it doesn't he loses out.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette


The "job" of a sales person should be to get a reasonable price for a product.




Negotiation is where you attempt to agree on the definition of reasonable. It's not a fixed number. If you don't like the price, don't buy.

What's reasonable to you may not be reasonable to the party on the other side of the table and vice versa.

I'm glad I live and work in a place where I'm still allowed to decide what is or isn't reasonable when it comes to buying and selling.

Bad things happen when an arbitrary 3rd party begins deciding what is or isn't reasonable. Let's leave that to the stakeholders in the transaction.

 

[apwillard1986]

I have to say that reading this thread I realize what a shame it is there are not more honest dealers and sales persons out there. When I sold I never gave any credence to “tactics”. I focused entirely on product knowledge. No lies or games and I averaged seventeen units a month. I worked at a corporate owned store a year before I took a job at a family owned store and there is a huge ethical difference. Just about anything that couldn’t be proven seemed acceptable at the corporate store. I used to refuse to run any errands in my work shirt when I worked at the corporate store for fear someone might see and complain to me about their ill experience. The family owned store is different in that our owner and his family view his business as a legacy and community member. No one wants to lie or cheat anyone they may run into at church, the store, or the park later. When I wear my work shirt to run errands the worst I have to worry about is helping someone pair their Bluetooth device in the grocery store or bank parking lot. That said there are family dealers who are crooks also though so it is hard to quantify what makes a good dealer or a bad dealer and why.

 

[antiqueshell]

One thing you can be sure of is that the number of
crooked $tealerships out weights the number of honest ones with integrity, by a factor of 90%/10%.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
One thing you can be sure of is that the number of
crooked $tealerships out weights the number of honest ones with integrity, by a factor of 90%/10%.


Those numbers are probably pretty accurate.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
No, you can still make a rational decision, based on some facts that you can control. Some luck plays part in the transaction, as always.

Always ask for any maintenance records the dealer might have and the ownership history. Then have the car inspected by a mechanic of your choosing and run the vehicle check by yourself to confirm whatever documentation the dealer gave you.

If all of that checks out fine and your mechanic gives the car a clean pass, all is left are your price negotiations. In which case you should have your budget and stick to it. Forget whatever soap story the dealer might be telling you and don't waste time pondering if it's true or not. If the price is outside your budget, just move on to another car.

This is pretty much what I'm doing.

The catch is that I'm looking for a car that is very rare and seems to be selling well above where the normal resources (KBB etc.) seem to think it should be. This means that while I am very clear on my own bottom line, I'm not so clear on the dealership's. I also have less leverage in negotiations because it's harder for me to walk away; the dealerships know that I'm going to have a much harder time buying the car than they will have selling it.

This doesn't mean I can't follow normal procedure, of course. It's just a bit of gum in the works.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: apwillard1986
As a dealer I will tell you it is not different than any other business in that some are honest and some aren’t. I had a sales manager once who opined that the entire car business has changed except for the customer’s perception of it. That perception can often color people's opinion of the information they are given.

Some of what you list is indeed a big fat lie. I wouldn’t believe any used car salesmen that told me there was nothing wrong with a used car. I wouldn’t buy a warranty without knowing the terms up front.

However, at the risk of inciting animosity I will say some of it may be true particularly since you say you are looking at a specific and rare vehicle. We do sometimes lose money on cars. We have had customers stumble upon incorrectly priced specialty units on the internet and told them we would honor the price for them but that it was mis-priced and would be re-listed at the corrected (higher) price if they choose not to purchase. We do often have many people interested in the same vehicle, especially specialty units. I cannot even count the number of customers who left assuming the salesmen was lying when he said there where other interested parties only to return and become angry when they find out the unit sold while they were playing poker because they assumed we were.

Obviously sometimes these are ploys used at unscrupulous dealers and if you are shopping for a standard unit then I would be less inclined to believe them since there are thousands of such cars. However, you state you are looking for a specific and rare unit which may indicate others are as well and a more limited supply. I see it everyday so I have a perspective that the average customer who buys a car every three years or so doesn’t.

No animosity here. Thanks for chiming in.

You're exactly right. I get a similar perspective from my brother, who also works at a dealership. That's what really gets me about this whole thing: the few lies that do get told destroy the trust that could and should exist between a salesperson and a buyer. We should be working together toward a win-win, not against each other for a compromise.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: supton
I agree; sales and marketing is all about lying. Or at least stretching the truth.

Just to clarify, this is NOT what I'm saying. I know for a fact that salespeople often tell the truth. Many of them are completely honest. Some dealerships, where my brother works, cultivate a culture of honesty that makes them an oasis.

What I'm saying is that the salespeople who ARE dishonest and the lies they DO tell make it hard to trust the rest, and customers often react to that lack of trust by being dishonest themselves.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Any reason not to buy your next car privately? That way you can see what type of person owned the car before you?
It may take more time and travel but I imagine you can still pay yourself 100's per hour on the difference in price.
I always get the impression that M type cars are either at a slimey used dealership, or at a new car dealership at an inflated price. If I was in the market for those type cars, I'd rather buy right from the owner with a well kept house and all the records.

Good point.

So far, the only reason is that I haven't found the car I want in a private sale.