NOW READ THIS: Is Castrol Syntec a PAO synthetic once again?

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Absolutely NOT ! Even Castrol does not make the claim it is a GROUP IV !!! Please don't forget that in court, Castrol prevailed against Mobil on the notion that synthetic does not mean PAO or Group IV !!!! Another thing is there is a EURO version of Castrol that meets slightly higher standards and costs like 6 dollars a quart. (more money, no surprise) There is limited availability in the USA supply and distribution chain compared to the mainline Castrol products. In fact, I ran the Castrol 5w40 CI-4 diesel version that came OEM on my 2003 Jetta TDI for 5,000 miles. I have since swapped it out for Mobil Delvac One 5W40. [ September 19, 2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by quadrun1:
quote:
Originally posted by doyall: What color is it? [Smile] [Big Grin]
And what does it smell like? [LOL!]

Soon we'll be comparing taste [Coffee] [ September 19, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Drew99GT ]
 

MolaKule

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Ruking, "Please don't forget that in court, Castrol prevailed against Mobil on the notion that synthetic does not mean PAO or Group IV !!!!" This was not a LEGAL court case, it was a BBB ruling that carried no legal weight or precedence. The reckless regard for chemical definitions of synthetic vs. non-synthetic ruled, not logic, not chemistry!
 
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I just made a trip to the local Wal-Mart and something just startled me. I was looking at the 1 quart bottles of Castrol Syntec 5W-30 and 10W-30 and read that both met the spec A-1. I recognized these bottles as the group 3 "fake synthetic." I then took a look at the 5 quart jugs of Castrol Syntec (5W-30 & 10W-30). THESE JUGS MET THE SPEC A5. What is going on here????? The A5 spec is an extended drain spec used in Europe, right?? I think Mobil 1 meets this spec., correct? Wouldn't the 5 quart jugs of Castrol Syntec have to be PAO based in order to meet the A5 spec? I don't think a group 3 fake synthetic could meet a European extended drain spec, could it? The wording on the back of the 5 quart jugs also changed. The back label stated that a new advanced additive package is part of the oil. This wording has never been on the labels of Castrol Syntec bottles before. Go to Wal-Mart and check it out!!
 
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A slight increase in the amount of Group V esters used would give Syntec enough boost to meet A5. The oil is probably still mostly Group III, however. JMO.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule: This was not a LEGAL court case, it was a BBB ruling that carried no legal weight or precedence.
I disagree. Although handled through the BBB's advertising division, both parties agreed beforehand that the arbitrator's decision would be final, would be filed as a legal decision in the county in which it was heard, and could not be appealed. The LATTER provision, alone, made the decision even more binding than a court decision. Agreeing to those terms was a no-lose situation for Castrol. After all, the company could return to using PAOs if it "lost". But, Mobile was taking a huge gamble betting the farm on the decision. Short of an act of Congress, Group III base stocks are legally synthetics in the U.S. now. (Isn't it interesting that Group III "fake synthetic" base stocks are good enough to achieve ACEA A3 and A5 status? Who's really out of sync in this debate - North American internet oil mavins, or the European Community that established these aggressive motor oil specifications?) [ September 20, 2003, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Ray H:
quote:
Originally posted by MolaKule: This was not a LEGAL court case, it was a BBB ruling that carried no legal weight or precedence.
I disagree. Although handled through the BBB's advertsising division, both parties agreed beforehand that the arbitrator's decision would be final, would be filed as a legal decision in the county in which it was heard, and could not be appealed. The LATTER provision, alone, made the decision even more binding than a court decision.

What you are describing is nothing more than binding arbitration, and as such it affects ONLY the parties involved and pertains ONLY to that particular dispute. As such, if Schaeffer's decided to file a complaint with the NAD about Castrol's calling Group III "synthetic," the ruling in the Castrol-Mobil case would have no LEGAL precedent that would bar them from pursuing the complaint. An actual court ruling on the matter, however, would almost guarantee that Schaeffer's "complaint" would not survive a 12(b)(6) motion by Castrol and hence would never see the inside of a courtroom.
 
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W__A__Y back in the history of BITOG (at least two months ago) I asked a question to the effect do we KNOW that Castrol's SYNTEC formulation is not sufficiently expensive (read technologically advanced) that even as a Grp III oil it is worth what they charge for it. We have all assumed that since it is not Grp IV or V it is inferior...and maybe it is...but do we KNOW that? When I lived in Europe, back when M1 and Castrol BOTH had full synthetics, my recollection is that Shell's hot street oil, called Shell TMO, (a variant of their premier racing oil) was Group III and it cost as much or more than M1 or Castrol. [ September 20, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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The newest one quart bottles of Syntec 5W-30 and 10W-30 also now say ACEA A5 on the back listed with all the old specs that they had before. The front of the bottle is a little changed as it now says "Anything else is just motor oil". They also have stickers on the newer bottles that say "OUT performs leading motor oils". It would be interesting to know if the formulation has been changed. I did notice however that Syntec 5W-30 and 10W-30 do NOT meet ACEA B5 like Mobil One does in those viscosities.
 

doyall

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quote:
12(b)(6) motion
i.e., failure to state a claim on which relief can be granted. G-Man II, what are you, a lawyer? But back to oil. I was in Wal Mart this morning and saw the A5 rating on a 5 qt. jug of 10w30 Castrol Syntec BLEND. Wasn't on the 5w30 Blend though. Haven't heard much talk about the Blend, just the GTX and Syntec. Anybody know what's up with it? [ September 21, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
 
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sort of [Off Topic!] Made my Autozone runs today and the only store that NORMALLY has GC, had any, but their newest shipment contained the "T/W....." batch instead of the "TAG 785" batch which we had consistently been getting...not sure what that signifies.
 
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Why are you making runs to Autozone for the GC oil? Is its supply supposed to be cut off? I bought 5 quarts in the autozone on 8th ST and later in the week while I picked up a new halfshaft from the autozone on the road next to TNT's (sorry, can't remember the name) I noticed they had a buttload of GC. Is this stuff ok to use in summer wx? My car calls for 5w-30 and will it be fine with my 60 mile commute to Denver each day at speeds 80mph and occasionally faster. Thanks, Andy 80921
 

Patman

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quote:
Originally posted by Drew: Is this stuff ok to use in summer wx? My car calls for 5w-30 and will it be fine with my 60 mile commute to Denver each day at speeds 80mph and occasionally faster.
In any application which calls for 5w30 or 10w30, you can use GC 0w30. It's viscosity at 40c is actually a bit higher than most 10w30s out there, it's only when it gets colder out that this oil is thinner. So for those of you afraid to use it because you think the 0w designation makes it too thin, do not worry. Besides, a 0w30 oil when cold (of any brand) will always be thicker than any 5w30 or 10w30 when hot. People hear the 0w part and automatically assume that this stuff is water thin.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Drew: Why are you making runs to Autozone for the GC oil? Is its supply supposed to be cut off? [QUOTE] I'm taking advantage of the 6 qts for the price of 5 special. We don't know for sure how long we will have a reliable supply. [QUOTE]I bought 5 quarts in the autozone on 8th ST and later in the week while I picked up a new halfshaft from the autozone on the road next to TNT's (sorry, can't remember the name) I noticed they had a buttload of GC.
The AZ you are thinking of is the one on Austin Bluffs. They were bone dry yesterday.
quote:
Is this stuff ok to use in summer wx? My car calls for 5w-30 and will it be fine with my 60 mile commute to Denver each day at speeds 80mph and occasionally faster.
Like Patman said, you are fine using this 0W30 year round and at high speeds. I speak from personal experience with M1 0W30 and I believe GC is a better oil than the M1 I was using because the M1 was an older formulation and it was thinner. [ September 22, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 

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One more point. As everyone is well aware of, this oil is in my 95 Firebird right now, and during this interval I have made two trips to the dragstrip, with a total of about 9 or 10 passes, plus each trip there is almost 250 miles round trip, and most of that time I spend going 75-80mph. So we'll see how this oil handles that kind of hard abuse in a few weeks when I do the UOA. But who knows, I might be the unlucky guy to post the first terrible UOA on this oil! [Eek!] I will say this ahead of time so it doesn't seem like I'm already getting my excuses ready, but I'm concerned with my air filter, as the silicon numbers have been higher since I replaced my extremely dirty OEM AC Delco filter with a fresh Fram one. I've got a brand new AC Delco sitting in my oil shrine waiting to go in if I don't see any improvement in my silicon on this next interval (as a comparison, I got 12ppm of silicon on a 4400 mile interval with my old filter, but then 11ppm of silicon in a 3100 mile interval with the new filter)
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Patman: One more point. As everyone is well aware of, this oil is in my 95 Firebird right now, and during this interval I have made two trips to the dragstrip, with a total of about 9 or 10 passes, plus each trip there is almost 250 miles round trip, and most of that time I spend going 75-80mph. So we'll see how this oil handles that kind of hard abuse in a few weeks when I do the UOA. But who knows, I might be the unlucky guy to post the first terrible UOA on this oil! [Eek!] I will say this ahead of time so it doesn't seem like I'm already getting my excuses ready, but I'm concerned with my air filter, as the silicon numbers have been higher since I replaced my extremely dirty OEM AC Delco filter with a fresh Fram one. I've got a brand new AC Delco sitting in my oil shrine waiting to go in if I don't see any improvement in my silicon on this next interval (as a comparison, I got 12ppm of silicon on a 4400 mile interval with my old filter, but then 11ppm of silicon in a 3100 mile interval with the new filter)
You drive 125 miles to get to the strip? You are indeed a dedicated racer...luckily you have a premier lubricant providing that extra margin of protection that you need... [Big Grin] (Repeat after me, "I will NOT get a bad UOA from GC, I will NOT.........") [ September 22, 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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