BMW in the early-mid 2000s around the time of the S54 bearing recall and introduction of 10W-60 for M engines. I am not sure it was denied but they definitely sampled oil on failed engines in a few cases I know of. I imagine if you used a non-approved oil, or an oil that deviated suspiciously at least, they would try to deny your claim instead of replacing $25k engines. When those engines fail early in the lifecycle they send BMW NA field engineers out.
Transcript of a conversation with Mazda regarding "recommended" vs "required" oil viscosity
- Thread starter cammyfive79
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The grammar is too poor for AI.
Well said. As I mentioned and another member posted in a comment - it's all a risk formula. There is a risk - albeit smaller than most would think - that something goes wrong in the engine and the OEM denies coverage on that issue because you used some non-recommended grade. I do have the luxury of working at a dealership so our group takes care of it's employees very well so I have that in my corner as well as almost free labor to do an OCI and a new OEM filter.
But it we weren't all a bunch of nerds asking oil "what about/what if" questions, they could close the forum to new comments and pin maybe 15 topics that could answer almost any question.
I'm a thickie...
The probability of engine failure in warranty period is very small. Even if it does fail, use of different viscosity will not automatically void your warranty, the probability of both events is like 0.1%. Who cares about such a small chance, you probably have higher chance of totaling car in accident. Just stop worrying and enjoy it.
- Cold Weather Performance: Using a thicker oil (higher first number, like 5W or 0W-40) may provide better protection in extremely cold climates. However, it might also make engine startup slightly harder.
From all this, it seems that the bottom-line "requirements" are the labeling on the oil should be the API "donut" and an SN rating. It seems that most "Boutique" oils like Amsoil SS and others do not have this. Most likely meet or exceed the requirements for such labels, but have not paid the necessary fees to aquire them. I can't visualize a lubrication failure using them, but the requirement is there in the manual. As my Honda dealer's technician indicated, denials are most often due to lack of documented service and sludging. As you can see in my signature, we run Mobil1 5W-30 EP in our CRV which is a real dilluter due to mostly short-tripping, this was at the suggestion of both the service advisor and the servicing technician. I've given up playing "filter roulette " due to the constantly changing ownership/quality changes and countries of manufacture and just use the Honda factory filters, fully realizing that it's a Fram in a blue can, but Honda warranties their engines using it. All service is at the dealership so documentation isn't something to worry about.
This one is ready for assimilation - Boink. Bleep.
I really didn't see any of it as a hard legal requirement frankly.
Yeah, from warranty perspective the manuals are more strict about oils with API seal rather than viscosity.
My Acura manual requires oil that has API seal(always use oil with API seal logo), but when it comes to viscosity it has very vague langue:
1. “use viscosity that is appropriate for your climate”. Hmn, so thats a green light for 5w-30 because it’s appropriate for my climate?
2. Recommended viscosity is 0w-20. The word “recommended” is a key here. For other fluids like ATF and coolant they are using words like “required/specified”. From legal interpretation of “recommended” viscosity, Honda will have a hard time proving that you did something wrong. You could probably even sue them based on the language should they deny warranty because it was other viscosity.
Most mechanics I have worked with - and likely service writers and managers - would say, " Amsoil? that's good stuff. "And that would be the end of it.
Most mechanics or S.M. don't have a clue what ILSAC is, and if prodded and quizzed they may respond " Whoa, Isn't that some sort of "family jewel" problem!?
Where does it say must? I read no imperatives such as "shall" and "must" there.
A couple "may" words.
Apparently the dietys at CAFE require most if not all manufacturers strongly advocate that they use the lowest viscosity oils for the purpose of increasing mpg. I would surmise there's some sort of financial incentive for them to do that. Sometimes it's that, not engine longevity that's the priority, especially in small displacement Turbocharged engines. Yet in other countries and climates, ironically other, higher viscosity is recommended. Seems to be a US prerogative only.
I posted the manual page, its pretty clear to me that they are stating it should have API seal:
“you may also use synthetic oil if its labeled with API certification label”
Yeah, thats my take from reading it also. With Grades you can potentially argue and say that the manual recommends to use viscosity appropriate for your climate and that 0w20 is recommended and not required. But with API seal they dont say “we recommend API seal”. With that being said, I highly doubt Honda will say this about amsoil SS, but maybe if you put some unknown no API seal oil they will have an issue with warranty…
I don't see where it says "must"?
Right, no must, but it says “as long as its labeled with API seal”. Thats a stronger statement unlike “recommended 0w-20” and “viscosity appropriate for your climate”. From legal perspective they could denny warranty when using non API oil based on that statement (only if they really want to do it and able to show the issue is oil related)
They can probably denny warranty with all the right receipts if they see something is wrong with the oil causing a failure. A lot of possibilities and what ifs….
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