When should you do your first oil change? My new Pilot says to NOT change the oil early. I have always thought it is better to do the first one rather soon...500-1000miles or so. Why are they telling me not to change it until 7500...that sounds nuts!
New car break in
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I believe the Honda break in oil has lots of moly in it. I would guess you could change it early but use a oil with lots of moly like redline. There are UOA on this break in oil on this site which will give you some insite on this special break in oil. Do a search on Honda Break-in in the Used oil analysis section.
quote:I would keep the Honda in a minimum ob 3 or 4 thousand miles. The problem with using Redline is that Redline says you should wait until 10K before going to their oil.
Originally posted by TR3-2001SE: I believe the Honda break in oil has lots of moly in it. I would guess you could change it early but use a oil with lots of moly like redline. There are UOA on this break in oil on this site which will give you some insite on this special break in oil. Do a search on Honda Break-in in the Used oil analysis section.
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Having said that though-it is a reasonable suggestion and I would seriously consider it.
your best bet is to just leave it in until at least 4k. Especially if the manual reccommends an extended drain for teh 'break-in' oil. you could, however, change the filter only, and go from there.
quote:It supposedly is a special break-in oil with lots of Moly. It may and probably is different from the regular Honda oil. As Tim Suggested-changing the filter is a god idea.
Originally posted by michaelv: What if I just refill with Honda oil 5w20. Does that have the Moly count I need? Or is break-in oil something else?
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I can not fathom keeping break in oil in for 7500 miles!! I would not be able to sleep at night. TO date 1000 miles has been my limit. If you can do it more power to you. I think 2000-3000 miles would be my absolute limit!I can not imagine what would need more then 3000 miles to break in. You would think that any moly uptake would be finished by then as well. If you decide to change and feel you need the high moly content their is always Redline. I would love it if someone could find an SAE paper on this subject!!
I belive that their are some UOA of honda's with 3000 miles and some with 7500 miles in the UOA section. They numbers scared the heck out of me!!
A friend of mine bought a '94 Accord, new. On my advice he changed the factory fill oil out at 500 miles, then again at 2,500 miles. The next change was at 7,500 miles and he stuck to that interval ever since. His son's got the car at college with just over 300,000 miles on it now. The engine's had scheduled tune-ups, four water pumps, and timing and balance shaft belts every 60,000 miles, but otherwise no real engine work. The upholstery's in tatters. (He should've kept that factory fill oil in it for the first 7,500 miles I guess...)
Regardless how much moly is installed at the factory (could either be in the oil or in the assembly lube - no one outside of Honda has any idea which and Honda isn't talking), only so much can be taken up in the sliding surface asperities (microscopic "hills and valleys" on machined bearing surfaces). The rest can only slosh around in the oil as excess.
If you're comfortable with the notion of running the same (probably dino) oil and all the initial wear metals too small to be trapped by the oil filter, and subsequently large enough to be trapped, but NOT, after the oil filter is clogged to bypass, for 10,000 miles in a new engine, fine.
I'm not.
quote:There is no need to change the oil out early. In most cars, it won't hurt to change it out early, but Hondas use special break in oil. If you change it out early, you loose the benefits of the special break in oil. I have a 2000 Honda Civic Si. Did the first oil change at 7,500 miles. Did every one after that at 7,500 miles. Now have 60,000 miles on it and car works great.
Originally posted by michaelv: When should you do your first oil change? My new Pilot says to NOT change the oil early. Why are they telling me not to change it until 7500...
Here is my plan. I mostly likely will leave the factory oil in for 3500-4000miles. Then I want to switch to Mobil1 10w30. Living in Hawaii I don't think I really need 5w20 like Honda recommends. Even then I change my oil and filter(K&N) every 4000. My local dealer says to come in every 3700miles. Oil change and a look under the car...I called the service dept. They said they us 5w20 or 5w30 Castrol...They don't even use Honda oil like my manuel recommends....How does that sound let me know if you think I'm off here thanks mv
If you dont use the recommended SJ or SL oil, what type are you going to use?
quote:
Originally posted by Ken4: My Toyota manual says change oil every 15,000km or 12months (break-in oil included) with any SJ, SL oil. Do you think Im going to listen to them? No Way Hosay!
quote:This sounds perfectly reasonable. Mobil 1 can actually go longer, so I'd go Honda's maximum 7,500 mile intervals (check this). But if that makes you uncomfortable, you can go with something easy to remember, for example, 5,000 mile intervals.
Originally posted by michaelv: Here is my plan. I mostly likely will leave the factory oil in for 3500-4000miles. Then I want to switch to Mobil1 10w30. Living in Hawaii I don't think I really need 5w20 like Honda recommends. Even then I change my oil and filter(K&N) every 4000.
quote:A layperson reading Toyota's recommendtion may simply pick up any SJ, SL dino oil and run it for 15,000km / 12 months. Sure it may bring it past the warranty period. The warranty period is 12 months BTW. But this vehicle will certainly become an oil burner if one continues to follow this kind of recommendation. And to make matters worse, the Tech is most likely going to tell him consuming 1 litre of oil per 1500km is normal.
Originally posted by CJH: If you dont use the recommended SJ or SL oil, what type are you going to use?
quote:A friend of mine got his Honda from someone we both kmow and the first owner DID exactly what the draler required, to the letter, missed nothing, sold it to my friend at 124K I think and my friend has 244K and sounds perfect. No decrease in performance, etc, Just the last 10K or so has he started to BURN about 1/3 - 1/2 a quart every 3-4K... before that only a few ounces!
Originally posted by Ken4: My Toyota manual says change oil every 15,000km or 12months (break-in oil included) with any SJ, SL oil. Do you think Im going to listen to them? No Way Hosay!
quote:
Originally posted by Ray H: A friend of mine bought a '94 Accord, new. On my advice he changed the factory fill oil out at 500 miles, then again at 2,500 miles. The 94 Accord didn't have steel cylinder sleeves or special break-in oil designed to seat the steel sleeves. There was also no recommendation not to change it out early. Regardless how much moly is installed at the factory (could either be in the oil or in the assembly lube - no one outside of Honda has any idea which and Honda isn't talking), only so much can be taken up in the sliding surface asperities (microscopic "hills and valleys" on machined bearing surfaces). The rest can only slosh around in the oil as excess. Moly is an expensive additive, and from the recent reports they've cut back from 1,000ppm to 500ppm in the break-in oil. That's still 2.5 times the moly you'll find in the OTC Honda oil. If you're comfortable with the notion of running the same (probably dino) oil and all the initial wear metals too small to be trapped by the oil filter, and subsequently large enough to be trapped, but NOT, after the oil filter is clogged to bypass, for 10,000 miles in a new engine, fine. I cut open my oil filter after running 5,000mi on the factory-fill oil in my 2002 Acura RSX and there was very little visible metal. The filter looked fine. It certainly wasn't clogged to bypass.
I think what most people miss is what happens during a breaking in engine today, vs one made 20 years ago. the older engines were not machined as 'accurate' as todays are, and therefor, didn't last as long, and broke in pretty quick (600 or so miles) plus the oils were not as good back then, either. Most of us posting on this board well remember those kind of break-in schedules. Now, FF to today. Machining done on an engine today is so precise that wear occuring during that same 600 miles is almost nothing compared to 20 years ago. this is why they say to let it go longer. teh amount of flack in the 20 years ago motor at 600 miles is about the same as a motor today at 6000 miles. In fact, most VW TDI engine take close to 10,000 miles for break in to complete ( granted they are deisel. but a hone is a hone). This is why I feel there is no harm in running 'break-in oil' to 4k. if real paranoid, do the severe service interval. I just don't think that auto manufacturer will let break in oil go for long periods if there would be a problem. after all, if the engine don't last, you won't buy another of their cars right?
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