Mazda's new propriety 0W-20 GF-5 with Moly

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
where can you buy this Mazda 0w20 at?

Your friendly neighborhood Mazda dealer, of course. List price in the U.S. is $7.95/qt. My dealer quickly agreed to a 15% discount for a case purchase. Since my Toyota dealer will sell me TGMO for $6.25, I didn't bite. Plus, I've got 0W-20 coming out of my ears after WM screwed up and sold me 3 jugs of PP for the price of 1.

 

[DBMaster]

Just called my Mazda dealer. $6.56/qt when purchased in case of 12. They have it on hand as they have not switched to bulk yet. I am going up there today to pick up a case.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Just called my Mazda dealer. $6.56/qt when purchased in case of 12. They have it on hand as they have not switched to bulk yet. I am going up there today to pick up a case.

How about running a VOA for us? I am curious about the moly content.

 

[DBMaster]

^It was my plan to run a UOA after my second oil change - first will be dumping the factory fill. I have the Blackstone kit sitting in my garage already. The main reason for this was that I always used a 10K OCI on my previous car and I think Mazda's 7,500 recommended is too conservative. I was going to use the 15K UOA as backup. My 89 Accord had a very clean valvetrain and lower end after over 350K miles using various synthetics since 1989.

Thank you, guys for helping to feed my compulsion over car maintenance! LOL!

I'm not sure about spending $35 ($25 + $10 for the TBN) on the virgin oil, but I'll think about it. Before joining this site I was just going to use M1 AFE as my go-to oil. I'm sure it would have been just fine.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
If that's the case then the VI is 197, exactly the same as the most recent GF-4 high moly oil.
BTW, how did to find out the KV40 was really 38.87cSt?

The real VI champ is not TGMO at 216 but Sustina at 229; unfortunately it's almost twice the price.

I got the MSDS from ILA. It gives the 40C and 100C viscosities but not the rest of the typical PDS data. I've requested that but haven't gotten a response yet.

That MSDS is pretty old (May/2010). How to we know it's not the GF-4 Mazda oil which does have a 197 VI?

 

[buster]

I wish there was more data available for the ultra high VI 0w20's. TEOST, Oxidation stability and IIIG/IVA performance. They appear to hold up well. I'd be curious how well they keep the rings clean.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
^It was my plan to run a UOA after my second oil change - first will be dumping the factory fill. I have the Blackstone kit sitting in my garage already. The main reason for this was that I always used a 10K OCI on my previous car and I think Mazda's 7,500 recommended is too conservative. I was going to use the 15K UOA as backup. My 89 Accord had a very clean valvetrain and lower end after over 350K miles using various synthetics since 1989.

Thank you, guys for helping to feed my compulsion over car maintenance! LOL!

I'm not sure about spending $35 ($25 + $10 for the TBN) on the virgin oil, but I'll think about it. Before joining this site I was just going to use M1 AFE as my go-to oil. I'm sure it would have been just fine.

DBMaster, if you are going to consider a VOA I'd pass on the TBN and get the KV40 test instead (same add'l 10 bucks). This will provide the VI so you will know if it is indeed 225 or not.
Perhaps some of the other members who are interested in this oil will chip in on the cost of the VOA.

BTW for our Cdn members, I checked yesterday with Acura and they are still being supplied with the GF-4 SM 0W-20 Idemitsu oil.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: buster
I wish there was more data available for the ultra high VI 0w20's. TEOST, Oxidation stability and IIIG/IVA performance. They appear to hold up well. I'd be curious how well they keep the rings clean.

Check out the following Sustina link which has a whole section on "Keeps Your Engine Cleaner" including a comparison of the piston rings, piston skirt and piston under crown:

http://sustina.us/superior-cleaning-power.php

Actually I think all GF-5 syn' oils will be good in that department.

 

[DBMaster]

When I got to the dealership I asked if I could get the reduced price for 15 quarts (4.4 qt per OC). They were agreeable. I am still 2,500 miles away from my first OC in this car so it will be a couple more months. I guess I am covered for 2.5-3 years on oil changes. Mazda oil and Mazda Skyactiv filters. This is the first time in my life to go with OEM stuff like this.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

That MSDS is pretty old (May/2010). How to we know it's not the GF-4 Mazda oil which does have a 197 VI?

Well, I guess we don't, but...

+at least I've provided a document which was not the case with the gentleman who claimed he was told the Viz was 35. Is he right? Is it a typo? Did he remember incorrectly? Has ILA ever produced a 225 VI oil? IDK.

+the document I posted was sent to me last week by ILA lab personnel. Working for a manufacturer, I can tell you that they better have current MSDSs on file. Could she have mistakenly sent me an out-of-date one? IDK

+I have been involved with product development. I can tell you that an MSDS is developed pretty early in the process. For there to be a two year gap between MSDS approval and commercial introduction of a new product would not surprise me.

But, since you question it, I will go back to my contact and ask for confirmation that this is the current MSDS for the GF-5 product.

 

[DBMaster]

All I was concerned with was, "Is it a good oil to use in my Mazda Skyactiv-G engine?" Since it says so right on the bottle, I would say yes. The price was decent and now I'm set for the next 22,500+ miles on oil changes. I already bought three OEM filters online from a Mazda dealership because there is no aftermarket cross - yet. Buying three cost about the same in shipping as buying one so they were under $7.00 each. I personally am not that concerned over whether the VI is 197 or 225, sorry.

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: clarklawnscape
what specific mazda are you referring to? many mazdas are just rebaddged fords, and if thats your case im sure any xw-20 would be fine. if it were the mazda rotary engine or something special, then id be concerned w mazdas recomendation.


The Mazda "Skyactive" 12:1 compression engine with roller rockers, forged crank, pistons, and rods as well as a variable pressure oil pump is a specific product to Mazda and is not shared with Ford. Ford and Mazda are diverging quite a bit. I test drove a new Focus before buying this car and the experience was very different.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
All I was concerned with was, "Is it a good oil to use in my Mazda Skyactiv-G engine?" Since it says so right on the bottle, I would say yes. The price was decent and now I'm set for the next 22,500+ miles on oil changes. I already bought three OEM filters online from a Mazda dealership because there is no aftermarket cross - yet. Buying three cost about the same in shipping as buying one so they were under $7.00 each. I personally am not that concerned over whether the VI is 197 or 225, sorry.

This thread obviously has interest beyond your specific application. 0W-20 oils are becoming ascendant as more and more OE applications are introduced. Those of us already using are interested in new products for possible use in our vehicles. So, each one is going to be dissected as to their physical properties and desirability beyond their own label. Witness the widespread popularity of TGMO on this site generated almost singlehandedly by Caterham's preaching the gospel of high VIs. This is the essential goodness of BITOG.

 

[DBMaster]

You are correct. I have been bitten, a bit, by the bug. The father of one of my friends started using Mobil 1 in the 70's when it was a real novelty. I became determined to use synthetic oil only in any new car. I am just getting used to the interest in all the specs.

While I'm on the subject, I picked up a bunch of Amoco Ultimate in 1990 when it was on clearance at Target. I found you after a couple of years of using it that it was a synthetic blend even though it did not say so on the bottle. A Baldwin filter guy told me that. When I was using it I was only up to 7,000 mile OCI's. I sold the rest of what I had because I only wanted to use "real" synthetic. I just wondered if any of you had ever used Amoco Ultimate and what you thought.

 

[DBMaster]

I did some reading here and through an online search. Amoco Ultimate WAS a true synthetic. In fact, it appears that it was a PAO synthetic. So, the Baldwin guy led me astray and the friend who bought the oil from me got an extra good deal. I did not represent it to him as a full synthetic and sold it to him really cheap - I think I paid less than a buck a quart.

 

[Sam_Julier]

This weekend I changed the Idemitsu 0W-20 GF-5 SN 169VI no moly for the new Mazda 0W-20W with moly in the CRV. The no moly oil was noisy - so much so that my wife commented that the car doesn't "sound right" - until it is warmed up. I had noticed the higher noise at start up and until the oil was warm as well.

We immediately noticed lower noise with the new oil.

Is this the difference in moly and VI alone? In the 34 years I've been changing oil I can't remember ever a difference like this between synthetic oils. The only time I've witnessed this was changing from bulk dino to Redline.

 

[DBMaster]

It may end up being a bit tough for me to notice a change when I change my oil. First off, the factory fill I am still on is probably the same as the oil I just bought. Secondly, the Skyactiv engine does some funky tuning to itself during warm up to heat up the catalyst as quickly as possible. It is so raucous during initial startup that Mazda has had to issue a special statement about it so owners don't end up thinking there is something wrong with their engines. I can tell you that due to the various friction reduction strategies employed, including the oil, this engine revs very freely.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Sam_Julier
This weekend I changed the Idemitsu 0W-20 GF-5 SN 169VI no moly for the new Mazda 0W-20W with moly in the CRV. The no moly oil was noisy - so much so that my wife commented that the car doesn't "sound right" - until it is warmed up. I had noticed the higher noise at start up and until the oil was warm as well.

We immediately noticed lower noise with the new oil.

Is this the difference in moly and VI alone? In the 34 years I've been changing oil I can't remember ever a difference like this between synthetic oils. The only time I've witnessed this was changing from bulk dino to Redline.

It's hard to say conclusively, the two formulations are quite different. It could be the combination of the high VI oil being much lighter on start-up plus the boat-load of moly.
The main point is that you're happy with it.

It's also interesting to note that it was only Subaru that agreed to run the no moly low VI GF-5 0W-20. All the other users of the Idemitsu oil have stuck with the preferred GF-4 version.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Sam_Julier
We immediately noticed lower noise with the new oil.


I, too, have at least perceived an inverse correlation between moly and engine noise. That is, the more moly an oil has, the less noise the engine tends to produce. I've experimented with a number of oils in our 2008 CR-V, identital to your 2007 model in terms of powertrain. In no other engine before have I noticed such a dramatic change in engine noise based on oil.

The dealer used Valvoline WB. As we know, there is no moly. And the engine was quite loud on it, especially before it warmed up. Pennzoil Ultra 5W-20 was also quite loud in this engine. And I normally default to SOPUS products, so it was a lot for me to admit that it simply was louder. Additionally, I had a negative experience with Mobil 1 and engine noise in a different vehicle, but have to be honest and say that Mobil 1's 0W-20 is about the quietest oil I've used in the CR-V. Another quiet oil for me has been Valvoline MaxLife 5W-20 (with a nice shot of moly). I currently have PP 0W-20 in it and like Ultra 5W-20, it's somewhat loud when cold.

The only correlation I can draw is regarding the moly content. I have yet to use a high-moly oil in this engine, like PYB 5W-20 or even TGMO 0W-20. This Mazda 0W-20 has my interest as well. Good to know it's quiet in yours.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
You are correct. I have been bitten, a bit, by the bug. The father of one of my friends started using Mobil 1 in the 70's when it was a real novelty. I became determined to use synthetic oil only in any new car. I am just getting used to the interest in all the specs.

While I'm on the subject, I picked up a bunch of Amoco Ultimate in 1990 when it was on clearance at Target. I found you after a couple of years of using it that it was a synthetic blend even though it did not say so on the bottle. A Baldwin filter guy told me that. When I was using it I was only up to 7,000 mile OCI's. I sold the rest of what I had because I only wanted to use "real" synthetic. I just wondered if any of you had ever used Amoco Ultimate and what you thought.


I still have some Amoco Ultimate 10w30 in my stash. I have been using it in my mowers because I don't want to use SG rated oil in my newer cars.

I have the PDS for Ultimate and the PP of the 5w30 is -54*F with a CCS, cP of 2325@-25*C and the 10w30 is -50*F with a CCS, cP of 2425@-20*C. I would be very surprised if these are anything other than PAO syns.

PS: I just read the entire PDS and it DOES state that the Ultimate 20w50 Racing oil is a semi-synthetic so the Baldwin filter guy isn't totally wrong....