Looking for oil for Subaru BRZ with FA24D

[SugarMouth]

What temperatures do you hit? Also ambient temperature?

Unfortunately the BRZ does not offer temp reading in digits but a graph which gives you a rough idea. In roughly 80 degrees at Thunder Hill I would run 20 minute sessions without any concern of oil temps without a cooler. I run advanced group for reference.

 

[Ruturaj]

Unfortunately the BRZ does not offer temp reading in digits but a graph which gives you a rough idea. In roughly 80 degrees at Thunder Hill I would run 20 minute sessions without any concern of oil temps without a cooler. I run advanced group for reference.

I have BRZ as well. What was the approximate temperature? Crossed 270? Mine stayed short of 270, I approximated to 250. It's great to hear you can hit advance group without a cooler. I think I would be spending one more year at least in beginner.

 

[SugarMouth]

I have BRZ as well. What was the approximate temperature? Crossed 270?

Nope.

 

[chris719]

It is not an issue if the engine is already having an external oil cooler in some other model (BMW engines, for example). Then it should be straightforward. This Subaru engine has an external oil cooler in some vehicles.

IMO it is a must. You can get away with your setup as you track your car at a very low altitude, 551ft. 270f is already "there," considering that altitude.

FA24 is going to suffer more from oil starvation due to moderate lateral Gs, temps probably won't be a big issue. Can't believe they made this worse in FA24 vs FA20.

these pressure drops are possible even with very minor modifications, on low-grip tires, and with non-advanced drivers

Yikes

 

[Nuclear_42]

https://www.amsoil.com/p/dominator-10w-30-racing-oil-rd30/

 

[Ruturaj]

FA24 is going to suffer more from oil starvation due to moderate lateral Gs, temps probably won't be a big issue. Can't believe they made this worse in FA24 vs FA20.



Yikes

Yes, but no fix is there, so going to do what I can and be prepared if engine still blows. Temperature I think is it's separate issue as well, so is RTV.

 

[Ruturaj]

https://www.amsoil.com/p/dominator-10w-30-racing-oil-rd30/

That looks good. Expensive though. Would it be much better than mobil1 FS 5w30 or 0w40?

 

[Nuclear_42]

That looks good. Expensive though. Would it be much better than mobil1 FS 5w30 or 0w40?

I would look into it over Mobil. Either one will be fine. If you become a preferred customer it's cheaper.

 

[Vermess]

That looks good. Expensive though. Would it be much better than mobil1 FS 5w30 or 0w40?

Although I am a fan of amsoil, I wouldn't rely on it to cure your issues.

You stated that you don't have a oil pressure gauge, so how do you know you're having oil pressure issues??? Are you just speculating???

How in the hell can people recommend a accusump after reading that comment???

If you do have oil pressure issues, are they related to heat or oil starvation???

If you're serious about this and not just looking for random posts of people fan-girl-ing about their favorite oil or product, you HAVE to find out if and when you're getting pressure drop.

If on turns, you need some baffling in that pan. If steady after the oil heats up, you need higher hths and a oil cooler.

Without logging, or at least a mechanical gauge in plain view recording your runs with a clear view of gauges, everyone in this thread is grasping at straws as they don't have a clue why or even IF you are having a issue.

Personally, I'd reach out to @TiGeo for recording runs. He has a nice setup for his runs. PS-dont take his advice on timing chain noise and tracking.

 

[VTECOverRated]

I mean for track...why not use a 0w40 from Red Line or HPL?

Its well known that the number one issue with subaru's on track is oil starvation, and pretty much everyone I know who runs their Subaru on track has baffled oil pans. Heck, I have one on my Civic Si. Its worth the money to not blow the motor.

 

[Petr]

A band-aid for short-term oil starvation might be an oil that has a tendency to create a robust sacrificial tribolayer.
I believe Ravenol oils that had tungsten included in the mix were creating such a layer. There was audible difference once the former layer was removed and much-improved sound when a new layer was created a few hundred kilometers later. Never before I have heard such an acoustic difference after an oil change. (I used Ravenol VST in Honda R18A2, and Ravenol SSO in Honda R18Z4 - both times I heard the unusual tribolayer layer destruction/creration process. Unfortunately, I have read latest Ravenol versions are without the tungsten.)
Ravenol Racing oils - e.g. Ravenol REP 5w30 (API SN) might still use tungsten in their composition and some other oils are likely to have it as well.
Another option might be to ask HPL if they have a product that might be able to handle temporary oil starvation better than usual oils - their products have an interesting composition including high moly and high boron.

 

[TiGeo]

Although I am a fan of amsoil, I wouldn't rely on it to cure your issues.

You stated that you don't have a oil pressure gauge, so how do you know you're having oil pressure issues??? Are you just speculating???

How in the hell can people recommend a accusump after reading that comment???

If you do have oil pressure issues, are they related to heat or oil starvation???

If you're serious about this and not just looking for random posts of people fan-girl-ing about their favorite oil or product, you HAVE to find out if and when you're getting pressure drop.

If on turns, you need some baffling in that pan. If steady after the oil heats up, you need higher hths and a oil cooler.

Without logging, or at least a mechanical gauge in plain view recording your runs with a clear view of gauges, everyone in this thread is grasping at straws as they don't have a clue why or even IF you are having a issue.

Personally, I'd reach out to @TiGeo for recording runs. He has a nice setup for his runs. PS-dont take his advice on timing chain noise and tracking.

I use a high-speed logging app called Simos Tools with a custom/DIY dongle on my VW. There are many but no idea what the Subi folks use but logging your car on-track is step 1 to look at what is going on.

 

[Vermess]

I use a high-speed logging app called Simos Tools with a custom/DIY dongle on my VW. There are many but no idea what the Subi folks use but logging your car on-track is step 1 to look at what is going on.

I always liked how you log your stuff. You do know your stuff when it comes to that. I wouldn't mind if you put together a step by step video on how you do it, what hardware/software you use, etc. Kind of like a first for people beginning to track. I know I'll watch it as your videos are well done. Just leave out the Simos blue tooth timing chain tensioner option out.

Honestly, for the price, I'd start with this...

Freematics OBD-II UART Adapter V2.1 (for Arduino)

Data bridge between a car's OBD-II port and Arduino with Arduino library

freematics.com

Couple that with a Arduino Mega Board and a 3.5" lcd screen and you have everything you need under $100.

You're pretty smart, look into it. Maybe it will work in your son's focus as a get started logging kit.

 

[TiGeo]

I always liked how you log your stuff. You do know your stuff when it comes to that. I wouldn't mind if you put together a step by step video on how you do it, what hardware/software you use, etc. Kind of like a first for people beginning to track. I know I'll watch it as your videos are well done. Just leave out the Simos blue tooth timing chain tensioner option out.

Honestly, for the price, I'd start with this...

Freematics OBD-II UART Adapter V2.1 (for Arduino)

Data bridge between a car's OBD-II port and Arduino with Arduino library

freematics.com

Couple that with a Arduino Mega Board and a 3.5" lcd screen and you have everything you need under $100.

You're pretty smart, look into it. Maybe it will work in your son's focus as a get started logging kit.

I have a logger for his Focus as well from the tune he has (SCT flasher/Focus Power "Tom's" tune. Uses a laptop which is clunky but it's very good/high speed with the SCT flasher tool. I've logged with a $10 blue tooth OBDII donge from Amazon and the Torque Pro app ($5). I have a video on my YouTube for the VAG-specific tool OBDEleven and how to use it to log, it's a pain but works well enough for basic data gathering.

 

[Ruturaj]

Although I am a fan of amsoil, I wouldn't rely on it to cure your issues.

You stated that you don't have a oil pressure gauge, so how do you know you're having oil pressure issues??? Are you just speculating???

How in the hell can people recommend a accusump after reading that comment???

If you do have oil pressure issues, are they related to heat or oil starvation???

If you're serious about this and not just looking for random posts of people fan-girl-ing about their favorite oil or product, you HAVE to find out if and when you're getting pressure drop.

If on turns, you need some baffling in that pan. If steady after the oil heats up, you need higher hths and a oil cooler.

Without logging, or at least a mechanical gauge in plain view recording your runs with a clear view of gauges, everyone in this thread is grasping at straws as they don't have a clue why or even IF you are having a issue.

Personally, I'd reach out to @TiGeo for recording runs. He has a nice setup for his runs. PS-dont take his advice on timing chain noise and tracking.

Frankly I am not sure why you think I said that I have oil pressure issue. I didn't. To clear out the confusion

I was looking for advice only about oil temperature which I saw on the gauge. I was using mobil1 extended performance 5W30 and I was doubting if it was enough protection at that temperature.

I was serious about that only. After coming here I learned that actual viscosity of EP is much less than euro spec oils and HTHS was low as well. So I am switching to Pennzoil euro L 5w30 or mobil1 FS 5w30 for last few track days of rest of this year. For my level I think that's enough, if I start seeing higher temperature I would put Mobil1 FS 0w40 instead.

I do know there is problem with oil pressure drop in corners for this engine FA24D, that many have reported, I didn't originally post about it because
1. I don't have oil pressure gauge
2. I don't think I pull enough g to have that problem

Other commenters brought it up in discussion. And I replied that no one has found a solution for it yet. They tried baffled plate that didn't work. The video by 900brz shared somewhere in previous comments does a good overview of issue and follow up video of baffle plate not working. Again, I didn't say that's the issue with me but I replied to comment with what I know and without implying that's my issue.

I would, with time, dig deeper in to recordings. I am still a noob on track, my only concern was oil temperature.

 

[TiGeo]

Frankly I am not sure why you think I said that I have oil pressure issue. I didn't. To clear out the confusion

I was looking for advice only about oil temperature which I saw on the gauge. I was using mobil1 extended performance 5W30 and I was doubting if it was enough protection at that temperature.

I was serious about that only. After coming here I learned that actual viscosity of EP is much less than euro spec oils and HTHS was low as well. So I am switching to Pennzoil euro L 5w30 or mobil1 FS 5w30 for last few track days of rest of this year. For my level I think that's enough, if I start seeing higher temperature I would put Mobil1 FS 0w40 instead.

I do know there is problem with oil pressure drop in corners for this engine FA24D, that many have reported, I didn't originally post about it because
1. I don't have oil pressure gauge
2. I don't think I pull enough g to have that problem

Other commenters brought it up in discussion. And I replied that no one has found a solution for it yet. They tried baffled plate that didn't work. The video by 900brz shared somewhere in previous comments does a good overview of issue and follow up video of baffle plate not working. Again, I didn't say that's the issue with me but I replied to comment with what I know and without implying that's my issue.

I would, with time, dig deeper in to recordings. I am still a noob on track, my only concern was oil temperature.

Going back to OP....250 deg F really isn't that high. For example see my post here for some temp data from a track event I did last week:

Thread 'Oil, coolant, trans, intake air temp data log from track session' https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-air-temp-data-log-from-track-session.372917/

Oil up to 280.

Folks get very apprehensive when they see oil temps rise beyond the normal daily values but 250...I've seen that on a mountain drive. A normal 5W30 is fine but sure can go Euro xW30 for more HTHS.

 

[Ruturaj]

On the topic of oil pressure and oil coolers

I started going over all threads and videos related to oil cooler. I posted in Ascent forum as well, seems like there is no oil cooler on Ascent. People who have aftermarket external oil coolers are having pressure issues in turns.

There is no solution to drop on right turns.

For overall pressure, it seems like oil cooler are not adding much benefit or I am not understanding if they do for my requirements. Looking at attached chart seems like oil coolers cause pressure drop, in order for them to overcome that drop they need to keep temperature lower by at least 30F. The chart was using Redline 300v and is for gen 1 from 2015. So not directly applicable but was very interesting.

 

[Jasperino]

Unfortunately the BRZ does not offer temp reading in digits but a graph which gives you a rough idea. In roughly 80 degrees at Thunder Hill I would run 20 minute sessions without any concern of oil temps without a cooler. I run advanced group for reference.

It does in the 2nd Gen (FA24D) when you put it in Track Mode.

 

[tessaseveride]

It does in the 2nd Gen (FA24D) when you put it in Track Mode.

Only the GR86 shows the temp in digits. The BRZ shows a graph.

 

[Jasperino]

Only the GR86 shows the temp in digits. The BRZ shows a graph.

You're right, wow I'm surprised I'm just finding out about that.