Can you tell name of brand and type ?Nothing new... M1 oils have been subpar for years... so many better oils for less cost out there these days. They built up a cult following (like so many of you guys on here) and then they pull out the good stuff but you still buy it!
Looks like M1 EP 5w30 formulation has possibly changed.
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Why is the increased use of PAO so important to you? The mobil shc technology is good enough, there is no need for excessive PAO.
OVERKILL
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The premise behind the EP products isn't "good enough", but rather, Mobil's top-tier offering, now that they've discontinued AP. People that are happy with "good enough" are already buying SuperTech or whatever else the cheapest product on the shelf is that meets the requirements for their application.
M1 EP 0w-20 was a fantastic deal when it was majority PAO, because it was the same price as many other oils, despite being more expensive to blend. It has lost some of that lustre now that PAO content has been reduced.
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Okay, thanks for your opinion. I don't want to have engine oils in my engine that mainly contain PAO, because there are also other negative aspects apart from the price. Furthermore, I also saw or see no advantages in terms of wear in oil analyses to good hc oils. But that's how everyone has their opinion 
OVERKILL
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Oil analysis doesn't tell you wear performance, only tear-down testing can provide you with that. UOA's widely misunderstood and misused. If you haven't read the article on them by Doug Hillary, I highly recommend doing so:Okay, thanks for your opinion. I don't want to have engine oils in my engine that mainly contain PAO, because there are also other negative aspects apart from the price. Furthermore, I also saw or see no advantages in terms of wear in oil analyses to good hc oils. But that's how everyone has their opinion
Used Oil Analysis - Bob is the Oil Guy
UOAs are a great tool in the Management of any machinery that uses liquid lubricants. Unfortunately, their real value is often misunderstood by those who contribute to BITOG. Firstly, it is important to realize that you get what you pay for. The most common forms of UOA are limited in their...
bobistheoilguy.com
The negative characteristics of PAO (seal shrink tendency, poor solvency) are easily counteracted by coupling it with AN's and POE, that's the whole purpose of a balanced blend, capitalize on the strengths of the components while cancelling out their weaknesses.
Group III HC also has poor solvency, it's basically just as bad a PAO. The difference is that it doesn't require the POE to balance out the seal shrink. But, PAO has cold temperature performance that Group III can't touch.
Ultimately, it depends on what you need the product to do. I have periodically started when it is -30C, a PAO-based oil has readily observable advantages in that scenario, particularly consistency, because it isn't beholden to PPD's for its cold temp performance. If you aren't doing extreme cold starts, then it doesn't really offer much (perhaps a bit better oxidation resistance) over Group III.
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Thank you for addressing the base stocks, as well.
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I love you and your posts - no homo
Ages ago I found that a well formulated true synthetic (with majority PAO base) had less incidence of ring sticking and concomitant poor cylinder balance compared to lesser formulations. Provided a consistently well-running engine.
Also It is nice to walk out of the store with "Synthetic" labeled oil bottles knowing it is a SYNTHETIC oil - not playing pretend.
I don't have any cars currently I feel a need to run a tuye synthetic oil at this time. QSFS and VAS are quite good offerings.
Maybe if I had a new Chevrolet Camaro SS sitting in the driveway I would seek out the PAO
Actually, not maybe - I would for sure
All this typing now I want Kung PAO Chicken for lunch!
In the end, I believe it comes down to Approvals and certifications, actual formulation really doesn't matter. I have found different engines and vehicles can produce vastly different UOA'S using the same oil. My 19 Honda Civic with the 1.5t ran only Mobil1 0W-20 AFE and Mobil1 M110A filters, with 5k OCI'S that had essentially perfect UOA's. My 2020 Honda CRV, with essentially the same engine (albeit with a heavier vehicle and higher boost pressure) is very hard on oil, initially tried the same combination as the Civic, high percentage of fuel dilution causing thinning below grade between 3-4K, switched to Mobil1 0W-20 EP with essentially the same results. Last change was to Mobil1 0W-30 AFE, at 3K, far less dilution (.5) but still either sheared or diluted below grade but still above where the the 0W-20 was. The lower dilution possibly attributed to the heavier base viscosity providing better ring sealing, so, for now probably going to stay with the 0W-30 and use the Honda factory filter and 3-3.5K intervals. The CRV 1.5t has not been a troublesome engine, with thousands of them in service for many years now without a high percentage of failures, however, it is a combination of a lot of compromises to achieve mileage, power and emissions demands. A small displacement DI (without the mitigation of simultaneous of port injection) Turbocharged engine with a small sump and a tendency towards running cool is not, IMHO, an ideal solution, despite Honda's attempts to tweak and mitigate the issues. Interestingly, my Honda Master Certified Technician told me the 1.5 engine (DI, non-turbo) used in the now-discontued Fit is notorious for intake valve deposits. I don't think there's a "magic brand) of oil despite the new GF-6A spec that will solve this issue and allow 5k OCI'S, I do have a Hondacare extended warranty so I'm pretty much limited to API spec oils.
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Honda turbo engines since 2015 are actually quite problem-free in terms of engine oil. These motors run very low-wear even with an SAE16 viscosity. Short distances are not good for all engines, but the manufacturer can't do anything about that. However, it is true that the 1.5er is known for higher fuel input. However, I may doubt that at an interval of 10000 kilometres and 4% fuel in the oil there are problems
All this typing now I want Kung PAO Chicken for lunch!
@ARCOgraphite , interesting analogy because that Kung Pao chicken is about as Chinese as La Choy chow mein in the can.
Tastes better though.
@ARCOgraphite , interesting analogy because that Kung Pao chicken is about as Chinese as La Choy chow mein in the can.
Tastes better though.
For those of us looking for both approvals and PAO, PAO presence is important. It was also important because M1 provided PAO in 0w-20 EP without charging premium price. I still like 0w-20 EP because of 20-30% PAO content, but its becoming less appealing and no longer stands out from other main brands.
Keep in mind that not all PAO's are the same, either. But PAO's are definitely the most common way to achieve good cold temp capabilities.
Well I suppose we could blame this on BP's Castrol for pushing III's to be considered synthetic. "What if" that never happened?
PAO's are being used like a correction fluid, blended into various III/III+ stocks. If you can get close (80-90%) performance using III/III+ with some PAO vs that of a full PAO based formulation, ............
PAO's are being used like a correction fluid, blended into various III/III+ stocks. If you can get close (80-90%) performance using III/III+ with some PAO vs that of a full PAO based formulation, ............
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I do still find it ironic that Mobil hooped and hollered for Castrol doing that, and then followed suit, trying to be sneaky about it via the Visom PowerPoint leak. Pot meet kettle.
Sort of yeah. Well at some point I think Mobil just said eff it and figured they'd save $ by using III's.
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Good post!
Because average consumer will buy cheapest oil that has magic words “full synthetic”, they dont know about group 3 or 4 and etc. they would not be able to compete