Originally Posted by Marco620
Find a basic 5w30 full synthetic oil and change it every 5-6k.
+1
Find a basic 5w30 full synthetic oil and change it every 5-6k.
+1
Kia recommended OCI
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Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by pitzel
Adherence to manufacturer's specifications is of utter importance with the GDI engines. This includes not performing oil changes meaningfully more frequently than specified. Changing oil more frequently than spec can be harmful in its own right on those engines.
Once again, show me an owner's manual that mentions that changing the oil too often on direct injection is harmful. Do you really think any carmaker is going to void someone's warranty if they've done oil changes every 5000km? Not a chance. I still say if this is such a big problem like you keep harping on about, why is it not mentioned by any car manufacturer? Not a single note in an owner's manual, not a single TSB out there. So as I keep saying, you have no proof, it's just a theory.
As I've mentioned before, there are not many car owner's out there that do as frequent of oil changes as Corvette owners. There are still quite a few that won't go past 3000 miles ever. But even though the Corvette has had direct injection since 2014, there doesn't seem to be anyone with any carbon buildup issues at all, and there are a number of people with over 100,000 miles now too. And Corvette owners are very vocal about their problems on the Corvette Forum, so if this were an issue I would have heard about it by now for sure.
Adherence to manufacturer's specifications is of utter importance with the GDI engines. This includes not performing oil changes meaningfully more frequently than specified. Changing oil more frequently than spec can be harmful in its own right on those engines.
Once again, show me an owner's manual that mentions that changing the oil too often on direct injection is harmful. Do you really think any carmaker is going to void someone's warranty if they've done oil changes every 5000km? Not a chance. I still say if this is such a big problem like you keep harping on about, why is it not mentioned by any car manufacturer? Not a single note in an owner's manual, not a single TSB out there. So as I keep saying, you have no proof, it's just a theory.
As I've mentioned before, there are not many car owner's out there that do as frequent of oil changes as Corvette owners. There are still quite a few that won't go past 3000 miles ever. But even though the Corvette has had direct injection since 2014, there doesn't seem to be anyone with any carbon buildup issues at all, and there are a number of people with over 100,000 miles now too. And Corvette owners are very vocal about their problems on the Corvette Forum, so if this were an issue I would have heard about it by now for sure.
Plenty of Kia cars experiencing early engine failures (100,000mi) here in FL. Almost universally, infrequent oil changes are involved. No surprise that even dealer services cars are subject to the problems.
The guys getting good results maintain their cars well.
The guys getting good results maintain their cars well.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by Cujet
Plenty of Kia cars experiencing early engine failures (100,000mi) here in FL. Almost universally, infrequent oil changes are involved. No surprise that even dealer services cars are subject to the problems.
The guys getting good results maintain their cars well.
And that's what I would expect and it's the exact opposite of what pitzel keeps claiming.
Plenty of Kia cars experiencing early engine failures (100,000mi) here in FL. Almost universally, infrequent oil changes are involved. No surprise that even dealer services cars are subject to the problems.
The guys getting good results maintain their cars well.
And that's what I would expect and it's the exact opposite of what pitzel keeps claiming.
Originally Posted by pitzel
Adherence to manufacturer's specifications is of utter importance with the GDI engines. This includes not performing oil changes meaningfully more frequently than specified. Changing oil more frequently than spec can be harmful in its own right on those engines.
*How so ? ... Say you changed the oil in a Kia GDI engine at 3,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles - what would be the down side of doing so ?
Adherence to manufacturer's specifications is of utter importance with the GDI engines. This includes not performing oil changes meaningfully more frequently than specified. Changing oil more frequently than spec can be harmful in its own right on those engines.
*How so ? ... Say you changed the oil in a Kia GDI engine at 3,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles - what would be the down side of doing so ?
There has been speculation - from good sources - that changing oil too frequently on such engines could contribute to deposits.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I've never read any study supporting, nor experienced this. My Santa Fe barely reaches 4k miles oci and I've never gone past 5k on any GDi vehicle. Said vehicles, if bought new, also received extremely short (2.5k mile) for the first 10k. I've never had deposit or drivability issues.
Conversely, everything I've read points to fresh oil keeping deposits at bay because it's properties remain intact, i e., less dilution so it stays in grade, and there's less soot etc.
Conversely, everything I've read points to fresh oil keeping deposits at bay because it's properties remain intact, i e., less dilution so it stays in grade, and there's less soot etc.
My 0.02:
Change oil in GDI every 4K miles with at least semi synth
Change oil in MPI every 5-6K miles with at least semi synth
Change PCV every 20K miles in either
Both my Kias show much smoother running engine after PCV changes, it feels like engines run 'under lighter load' even at idle.
Rock Auto has BeckArnley PCVs, mine came in their Beck's boxes while sealed bag inside with PCV had Hyundai label on it with Hyu/Kia part number. The ones I bought last time were $3.77 a piece.
Change oil in GDI every 4K miles with at least semi synth
Change oil in MPI every 5-6K miles with at least semi synth
Change PCV every 20K miles in either
Both my Kias show much smoother running engine after PCV changes, it feels like engines run 'under lighter load' even at idle.
Rock Auto has BeckArnley PCVs, mine came in their Beck's boxes while sealed bag inside with PCV had Hyundai label on it with Hyu/Kia part number. The ones I bought last time were $3.77 a piece.
I've split the difference between normal and severe service for six years with changes at 5K miles on my GDI Hyundai. I'm wondering if this is the norm because almost every owner I know ( or is often confirmed here ) does the same thing.
While I think the potential is there for different results depending on the engine...even if driven similarly...I'm of the mind that I would probably be experiencing deposits / driveability issues if this was going to happen. There doesn't seem to be 90-100K mile onset of this issue and it typically makes its presence known a lot sooner.
From what I've read, there's an inference that changing oil more often than necessary can possibly contribute to deposits...but I'd be more concerned about how often this occurs in the related application or not at all and not a blanket statement that has an inference morphing into a universal fact.
While I think the potential is there for different results depending on the engine...even if driven similarly...I'm of the mind that I would probably be experiencing deposits / driveability issues if this was going to happen. There doesn't seem to be 90-100K mile onset of this issue and it typically makes its presence known a lot sooner.
From what I've read, there's an inference that changing oil more often than necessary can possibly contribute to deposits...but I'd be more concerned about how often this occurs in the related application or not at all and not a blanket statement that has an inference morphing into a universal fact.
Originally Posted by wemay
I've never read any study supporting, nor experienced this. My Santa Fe barely reaches 4k miles oci and I've never gone past 5k on any GDi vehicle. Said vehicles, if bought new, also received extremely short (2.5k mile) for the first 10k. I've never had deposit or drivability issues.
It was talked about with the European makes, notably VW/Audi, way early on in the DI rollout.
I've never read any study supporting, nor experienced this. My Santa Fe barely reaches 4k miles oci and I've never gone past 5k on any GDi vehicle. Said vehicles, if bought new, also received extremely short (2.5k mile) for the first 10k. I've never had deposit or drivability issues.
It was talked about with the European makes, notably VW/Audi, way early on in the DI rollout.
Originally Posted by Garak
There has been speculation - from good sources - that changing oil too frequently on such engines could contribute to deposits.
Some were saying that oil volatile chemicals evaporate in the first iirc 1-2K miles ...
more evaporation causes more IVD for gdi engines ...
Therefore if you change the oil too frequently, you'll have more evaporation & more ivd.
Don't recall if this is just a theory or if the experts agree.
Also even if true, changing the oil too late will then have other side effects ...
This subject went off my radar since I always look for excuses to extend the oci. lol
I think moderation is the key
There has been speculation - from good sources - that changing oil too frequently on such engines could contribute to deposits.
Some were saying that oil volatile chemicals evaporate in the first iirc 1-2K miles ...
more evaporation causes more IVD for gdi engines ...
Therefore if you change the oil too frequently, you'll have more evaporation & more ivd.
Don't recall if this is just a theory or if the experts agree.
Also even if true, changing the oil too late will then have other side effects ...
This subject went off my radar since I always look for excuses to extend the oci. lol
I think moderation is the key
It's good to keep in mind that UOA results do not accurately reflect wear rates. The idea that leaving oil in longer results in lower wear rates is not born out by reality. Clean oil equals better results. The oil change is one way to ensure oil remains free of wear causing particulates.
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by Garak
There has been speculation - from good sources - that changing oil too frequently on such engines could contribute to deposits.
Some were saying that oil volatile chemicals evaporate in the first iirc 1-2K miles ...
more evaporation causes more IVD for gdi engines ...
Therefore if you change the oil too frequently, you'll have more evaporation & more ivd.
Don't recall if this is just a theory or if the experts agree.
Also even if true, changing the oil too late will then have other side effects ...
This subject went off my radar since I always look for excuses to extend the oci. lol
I think moderation is the key
That is interesting. But I thought it was recently decided on here the low NOACK has nothing to do with preventing LSPI deposits...would that be contradictory to what you posted???
Originally Posted by Garak
There has been speculation - from good sources - that changing oil too frequently on such engines could contribute to deposits.
Some were saying that oil volatile chemicals evaporate in the first iirc 1-2K miles ...
more evaporation causes more IVD for gdi engines ...
Therefore if you change the oil too frequently, you'll have more evaporation & more ivd.
Don't recall if this is just a theory or if the experts agree.
Also even if true, changing the oil too late will then have other side effects ...
This subject went off my radar since I always look for excuses to extend the oci. lol
I think moderation is the key
That is interesting. But I thought it was recently decided on here the low NOACK has nothing to do with preventing LSPI deposits...would that be contradictory to what you posted???
LOL, I see someone suggest heating and stirring fresh oil for a while to rid of 'volatiles' before putting it into engine... then discussion on what temp it should be heated to and for how long ... LOL
Originally Posted by KCJeep
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by Garak
There has been speculation - from good sources - that changing oil too frequently on such engines could contribute to deposits.
Some were saying that oil volatile chemicals evaporate in the first iirc 1-2K miles ...
more evaporation causes more IVD for gdi engines ...
Therefore if you change the oil too frequently, you'll have more evaporation & more ivd.
Don't recall if this is just a theory or if the experts agree.
Also even if true, changing the oil too late will then have other side effects ...
This subject went off my radar since I always look for excuses to extend the oci. lol
I think moderation is the key
That is interesting. But I thought it was recently decided on here the low NOACK has nothing to do with preventing LSPI deposits...would that be contradictory to what you posted???
I assume by lspi deposits you mean intake valve deposits! Since only (subject to debate as well) gdi engines experience lspi, I assume you can call it lspi deposits
As far as "recently decided", i can only recall one strong proponent of this theory. Maybe there are more than one proponents but it definitely does not fall under the done deal or have been "decided" category. I asked one of the industry experts about this theory and he disagreed. I could be wrong but that's all I know
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by Garak
There has been speculation - from good sources - that changing oil too frequently on such engines could contribute to deposits.
Some were saying that oil volatile chemicals evaporate in the first iirc 1-2K miles ...
more evaporation causes more IVD for gdi engines ...
Therefore if you change the oil too frequently, you'll have more evaporation & more ivd.
Don't recall if this is just a theory or if the experts agree.
Also even if true, changing the oil too late will then have other side effects ...
This subject went off my radar since I always look for excuses to extend the oci. lol
I think moderation is the key
That is interesting. But I thought it was recently decided on here the low NOACK has nothing to do with preventing LSPI deposits...would that be contradictory to what you posted???
I assume by lspi deposits you mean intake valve deposits! Since only (subject to debate as well) gdi engines experience lspi, I assume you can call it lspi deposits
As far as "recently decided", i can only recall one strong proponent of this theory. Maybe there are more than one proponents but it definitely does not fall under the done deal or have been "decided" category. I asked one of the industry experts about this theory and he disagreed. I could be wrong but that's all I know
Originally Posted by KCJeep
That is interesting. But I thought it was recently decided on here the low NOACK has nothing to do with preventing LSPI deposits...would that be contradictory to what you posted???
I mentioned in another thread that it really seems to be a bunch of hoop jumping in an attempt (possibly still failing) to reduce deposits on DI engines. It would seem that first off, you have to buy the right brand of vehicle, whatever that might be. Then, you should choose the correctly formulated oil, with the correct chemistry, and aim for the best Noack and TEOST scores, which may or may not help. You should also have one with elevated zinc and moly levels, which appear to be helpful for LSPI, but might not assist deposits. You should also use Top Tier fuel and a good PEA based fuel system cleaner, which may help a bit, but probably not too much, but might make you feel good. Then, you should change the oil often enough to combat fuel dilution but not too often for volatility, however you balance that sort of thing. You should also install a catch can (or more than one) which might be no more than a feel good exercise. You should always drive no less than 50 miles to burn off fuel dilution, and do an Italian tune up with some, ambiguous regularity, since that might make you feel better, and it might help, or it might not, but we all know that it will, with complete certainty, destroy the fuel economy advantage you received from buying a DI vehicle in the first place.
Did I miss anything?
That is interesting. But I thought it was recently decided on here the low NOACK has nothing to do with preventing LSPI deposits...would that be contradictory to what you posted???
I mentioned in another thread that it really seems to be a bunch of hoop jumping in an attempt (possibly still failing) to reduce deposits on DI engines. It would seem that first off, you have to buy the right brand of vehicle, whatever that might be. Then, you should choose the correctly formulated oil, with the correct chemistry, and aim for the best Noack and TEOST scores, which may or may not help. You should also have one with elevated zinc and moly levels, which appear to be helpful for LSPI, but might not assist deposits. You should also use Top Tier fuel and a good PEA based fuel system cleaner, which may help a bit, but probably not too much, but might make you feel good. Then, you should change the oil often enough to combat fuel dilution but not too often for volatility, however you balance that sort of thing. You should also install a catch can (or more than one) which might be no more than a feel good exercise. You should always drive no less than 50 miles to burn off fuel dilution, and do an Italian tune up with some, ambiguous regularity, since that might make you feel better, and it might help, or it might not, but we all know that it will, with complete certainty, destroy the fuel economy advantage you received from buying a DI vehicle in the first place.
Did I miss anything?
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Haha! Nailed it!
I give up and will just stick to recommendations from the owner's manual. My Veloster 1.6GDi, which was in my driveway before joining bitog ran fine for 88K miles on plain dino. Then i joined this board and became paranoid about all things oil. I've come full circle.
I give up and will just stick to recommendations from the owner's manual. My Veloster 1.6GDi, which was in my driveway before joining bitog ran fine for 88K miles on plain dino. Then i joined this board and became paranoid about all things oil. I've come full circle.
I guess we were a bit spoiled for a few years where you'd just change the oil regularly enough with something suitable, run a decent fuel, and that was that. There is undoubtedly internet amplification, not to mention the DI hiccups slowly working their way out. However, people are looking for a "correct" answer and there just doesn't seem to be one forthcoming.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Agreed. And if "my engine is flawed", I won't attempt a bandaid fix that will assist [insert car brand] in getting me past warranty.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted by Garak
I guess we were a bit spoiled for a few years where you'd just change the oil regularly enough with something suitable, run a decent fuel, and that was that. There is undoubtedly internet amplification, not to mention the DI hiccups slowly working their way out. However, people are looking for a "correct" answer and there just doesn't seem to be one forthcoming.
GF6 to the helping hand rescue, coming soon to a Walmart near you....lol
In the meantime, run 5w30, SN Plus and change synthetic every 5K and conventional every 3K.
At the top of my D.I. 2.4 engine list will be QS Durability, Castrol Magnatec and Pennzoil Platinum.
I need proof (beyond the pudding) that conventional oil brings longer engine life, before I switch back to it.
I guess we were a bit spoiled for a few years where you'd just change the oil regularly enough with something suitable, run a decent fuel, and that was that. There is undoubtedly internet amplification, not to mention the DI hiccups slowly working their way out. However, people are looking for a "correct" answer and there just doesn't seem to be one forthcoming.
GF6 to the helping hand rescue, coming soon to a Walmart near you....lol
In the meantime, run 5w30, SN Plus and change synthetic every 5K and conventional every 3K.
At the top of my D.I. 2.4 engine list will be QS Durability, Castrol Magnatec and Pennzoil Platinum.
I need proof (beyond the pudding) that conventional oil brings longer engine life, before I switch back to it.
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