It looks like electric vehicles are going to be shoved down our throats

[dlundblad]

The tech with EV’s isn’t here yet. It takes too long to recharge and despite what anyone says about them being clean, they aren’t. Most of the US’s electricity is generated from fossil fuels. Plus, there’s a lot of mining involved to make their batteries.

I’d also be worried about overloading the grid. Some states, one in which where said EV is manufactured, can’t keep the lights on as it is.

Said it before and I’ll say it again, I’d really be curious what the cost per mile is vs an equivalent gas vehicle. You really don’t hear anyone brag about this.

 

[CourierDriver]

You will eliminate many moving parts,,,electric motors only have one moving part, no oil filters or intake manifold cleanings,they are really simple and most likely low maintence after they all get perfected....now we can brag about how many amps and watts your car produces,,,wow,,now thats Macho at its best there............you can practice electric motor repair with that floor fan you got from walmart,,,lol, Memorize this formula,,yes its 7th grade math, I=E/R, you might invest in a amp clamp and multimeter and circuit analysis books ..its gonna be a brand new world for all of us...

 

[allepunta]

All true. Ev's were around at the beginning of the 1900's but got killed off by Big Oil. If its development had been allowed, imagine how far along we would be by now. Henry Ford's wife even owned an ev! You can see it at the Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mi . In NYC at that time, ev's outnumbered ICE cars. Jay Leno owns one of the very first ones and I believe it's good for 100 miles between charges. Its batteries are rebuildable, too. No environmental waste there

You see exactly the same at the Porsche museum in Stuttgart. Electric was first, we got fooled was second.

 

[supton]

I sure hope they won’t but I have a feeling they will and much sooner than we think. I do not like electric cars I want something I can fix in my driveway if it breaks

A lot of repairs are pretty hard to do in the driveway. Dropping a trans or pulling engine come to mind, pressed in wheel bearings would be a pain without a good press. Body work? you could bang out a dent but I'd wager a decent paint job would be pretty rough to do.

 

[4WD]

Big oil killed EV how & when … during the coal fired industrial days ? Perhaps ICE out performed it on the road and on construction sites etc …
Or perhaps we lacked EV/battery technology or more importantly the computers needed to develop the EV/battery technology of today and beyond. And big oil as in petrochemical took part in the development of EV … and that includes batteries. I‘m sure some revisionist historians would disagree … agenda is everything for them.
Coal, nuclear, oil/gas, and alternative energy sources have existed side by side for decades and would have been able to without all this “help” … carbon capture initiatIves could use help … don’t hold your breath …
So, BO did not kill all electric homes and electricity by any means allowed or meeting the competition head on … they add to it now with construction support, advanced gear oils, plastics, materials for batteries, vehicles, etc.
They even make tires more efficient … all vehicles benefit from that …

https://www.powermag.com/history-of-power-the-evolution-of-the-electric-generation-industry/

 

[PimTac]

The RX shoulda been an F Sport. Ours is too squishy. But I'm working on that...
For now I drive it in Sport mode.
Sue sez it gets better mileage than the TSX.

RX is pretty nice, but probably too fancy-pants for me.
The steering wheel is amazing, though.

I saw a 450h in person. Captains chairs in the back. It looked very comfortable inside. I didn’t notice anything different about the steering wheel though.

I have the commercials for the new F sport. Looking at the side profile, the front end is very Mazda like. I think their engineers and designers are giving Toyota tips. It’s a good looking car.

 

[PimTac]

Thing is technology won't continue to improve at a drastic pace. Look at cell phones and other things in our daily lives. Once things hit a decent level of performance/longevity upcoming 'improvements' are marginal at best.

Incremental change is typical for most things. In the case of smart phones the change from model to model might be small but what is inside is usually the bigger change. For people who have to have the latest phone, these changes are minor. For those like myself who hang onto a phone for some years, each upgrade is a leapfrog in technology and performance.

 

[BISCUT]

I only ask because I am interested in other people's situations and thoughts.
As an owner, I get asked about EV ownership; the Tesla Model 3 in particular.
I hope you did not mis-intrepret my question.

FYI, I had a #6 wire installed from the service box (240v, 60a) to the garage and a NEMA 14-50 receptilcle. $600 including tip. A union electrician did it on his own time. 60' wire was almost $200 as I recall.

#6 wire 60a? That's big.

 

[Hermann]

Tesla Model 3s are not more expensive than comparable luxury ICE cars, according to how the market classifies them.
Model 3 Standard Range (263 mile range, 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds) starts at $36,500. And you will pay virtually nothing in maintenance.
It will likely hold its value better and will be more dependable.
Both have benefits; it depends on what fits your lifestyle.
And ultimately what you want to drive.

Never considered a Tesla to be a luxury vehicle, they are very stark and poorly assembled.

And on the subject of low maintenance, Tesla tried to charge a YouTuber $80 to rotate their tires.

 

[BoBo1414]

Electric cars cost too much, depreciation is HUGE, cost a lot for insurance. In cold weather you lose about 40% of cruising range. In a state like Michigan total junk. A huge pipe dream for Jose and Juan.

 

[Spyderman24_7]

I for one see no legitimate reason for a forced push to electric cars. As it sits today they make no economic sense, are not practical for a huge number of people, and claims of their environmental superiority are highly suspect. There is little or no market demand for them, which there would be if they were truly superior. However, consumers are not demanding the change en masse. So why the mad rush for this massive, disruptive change? It's something that would take place gradually on its own in the future as the technology improves and electrics become more attractive on their own merits.

By the time electric cars actually reach parity with gasoline power on all fronts (including being able to buy one cheap on the used market that is still functional) it will likely be longer than my life expectancy. So I have no plans to buy one.

I also foresee that this thread will probably wind up being locked before too long.

Spot on... kinda reminds me of the common thought when I was growing up that we would have 'flying' cars by now and still waiting on that.

 

[eljefino]

Before this gets ed,

And just in time too as utilities push higher electricity rates during peak hours. Want to cook that supper after work or charge up your car? Pay more. It’s similar to Pay to Play HOV lanes we have here. As traffic gets heavier the digital price boards increase the rates

The vehicle charger will cooperate with the utility to use cheaper power. They have expensive peak power because it's hard for plants to throttle up and down quickly. I imagine a lot of charging happening at 4 am. Running my dishwasher in the middle of the night is literally one more button to press-- if my utility did cheaper overnight power I would use it 100%.

The Volt was, in theory, the perfect electric hybrid implementation. Wish it stuck around, or found its audience. I hate to be one of those guys who'd say "it's the perfect solution for other people" but I want someone else to take that initial bump in depreciation.

 

[jhs914]

You lost me... Can you charge at home? Did you check the map?
I am just curious.

You live in Los Gatos, California. You live in a different world than most of the rest of us. I just looked at your Supercharger map. I live in North Florida. The nearest Supercharger stations to me are 50 to the west and 50 miles to the east of me. Tell me how that helps me? And don't tell me all I have to do is charge overnight in my garage. I live in a apartment complex. No charging stations and if you ask the landlord, there never will be. And our electricity is generated 100% from fossil fuels, coal and NG. So much for "emissions free" electric vehicles.

 

[eljefino]

I love Decaprio and his movies. But he spewed the same nonsense and then hops a private plane to Europe. There needs to be some realism here.

It's hard to make $20 million a movie and not spend it on stuff that degrades the planet. Even if he pulled a Howard Hughes and just stayed in a hotel penthouse, that money would be spent on fuel moving things to him.

The obvious problem is we're paying movie stars way too much money.

 

[wpod]

I would also offer this. Before we hit the auto world with this, why isn't there a concerted effort to put heavy taxes on private planes and corporate planes? It sure does take a lot of fuel to get a jet plane up in the air. Our own US climate zar has his own plane. Fly like the majority of us have to and help do your part.

I love Decaprio and his movies. But he spewed the same nonsense and then hops a private plane to Europe. There needs to be some realism here.

Most wealthy people know the little people are so easy to fool about most anything.. Besides the wealthy are special.

 

[eljefino]

Conversation at the electric car dealer's lot:

Salesman, while the ink is drying: " Yes sir, you are going to love your new electric Binford. We gave you a full charge. Now all you have to do is put it on your 240 V charger at home every night"

Buyer: " Say what?"

You say this like it's a negative. Imagine never having to stop for gas!

And if houses come pre-wired with 240V in the garage, hooking up a nice welder is easy-peasy!

If you think it's too much trouble plugging a car in every evening, what about a cell phone?

 

[supton]

Electric cars cost too much, depreciation is HUGE, cost a lot for insurance. In cold weather you lose about 40% of cruising range. In a state like Michigan total junk.

Your first three points apply to ICE vehicles also. The fourth is not somehow magically not applying to ICE either, many people can see huge hits in winter.

I *think* most cars in MI after a decade might qualify as total junk? I know they are pretty beat after a decade of New England winters.

And on the subject of low maintenance, Tesla tried to charge a YouTuber $80 to rotate their tires.

I don't know about this story but to play devil's advocate: Tesla's aren't cheap and often higher cost cars get higher cost service. In this case, someone goes into a dealer, expecting to wait in a clean climate controlled waiting room, enjoying free WiFi, coffee and doughnuts. A tech who gets paid enough to not scratch up the car is expected to put it on a lift and look for any potential problems. Total time for all of this is what?

I prefer free tire rotations but I don't expect a shop giving me "free" rotations is going to be nearly as nice of a wait area as a high end dealer.

It's hard to make $20 million a movie and not spend it on stuff that degrades the planet. Even if he pulled a Howard Hughes and just stayed in a hotel penthouse, that money would be spent on fuel moving things to him.

The obvious problem is we're paying movie stars way too much money.

I was reading somewhere that a private jet was worth something like 166 private vehicles, forget the exact comparison, I think it was Co2 per mile. Thing is: how many private jets are there in the world, and how many miles are they really racking up per year? I kinda think it's a drop in the bucket.

Then again, passenger cars use something like 20% of our energy, so they too are a bit low on the tree.

I kinda agree on the movie stars, but that's the way it goes, contract between employee and employer. I know I "boycott" by rarely spending money on the biz--but if I had a shot at it, I'd take the money and sleep well at night.

 

[JeffKeryk]

#6 wire 60a? That's big.

Big, heavy and expensive. The charger in our car pulls a maximum of 32a.
The long range cars can pull more.
Our setup is the recommended installation; we could easily convert to the Tesla Wall Connector.

 

[4WD]

You say this like it's a negative. Imagine never having to stop for gas!

And if houses come pre-wired with 240V in the garage, hooking up a nice welder is easy-peasy!

If you think it's too much trouble plugging a car in every evening, what about a cell phone?

Well, there is that when/where it works … let’s talk Jeff again, the perfect Tesla buyer(s):
High income
Techie
Mild climate
Has “reversible” electric meter supporting solar
Likes performance
Has multiple vehicles
Emotionally attached by location

So, I wonder sometimes if Tesla needs to go into a holding pattern and focus more on affordable vehicles

 

[Krieg]

The only constant thing in life is change. Even Socrates spoke about the issues with younger generations. Change is constant.