Is 10W-30 really obsolete?

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Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I know this fellow who grew up in South Dakota. He mentioned going over the oil pan of his dad's tractor with a blowtorch so it could start in the winter.

The also had loads of fun with various airplanes in bad climates. That's why a multigrade is more optimal. And, the technology has left 10w-30 in the dust. Heck, the latest "thin" HDEOs are 5w-30s and 0w-30s, not 10w-30s any longer.
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
If I were taking a cross country trip or driving hundreds of KM each day, I would probably intentionally select 10w30, synthetic or mineral, for a 5w30 spec'd car.


By that logic, you'd do best in that situation using 30HD, since you're only starting it a very limited number of times per day, and it's the most shear-stable of them all. And at operating temp, they're all the same viscosity.
 
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Originally Posted By: mark pruett
Originally Posted By: jrustles
If I were taking a cross country trip or driving hundreds of KM each day, I would probably intentionally select 10w30, synthetic or mineral, for a 5w30 spec'd car.


By that logic, you'd do best in that situation using 30HD, since you're only starting it a very limited number of times per day, and it's the most shear-stable of them all. And at operating temp, they're all the same viscosity.

Multigrades have certain properties that single weight oils don't have. Granted a modern single weight is probably thinner at room temp than 30 years ago due to higher inherent viscosity index. However, it's still something that by specification won't have a VI improver.

I've heard that multigrades actually lubricate modern engines better at operating temps. They're also less dense (less weight to move around).

Additionally, startup isn't going to be great with an HD 30. They also allow a much higher concentration of ZDDP, and that can't be good for newer cars with more sensitive catalytic converters.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Clevy


As far as 10w-30 being obsolete here no oem is calling for it in new vehicles.


Conversely, Nearly every manufacturer allows/permits or recommends 10W-30 in their vehicles in countries other than the United States.

I work in Aviation and travel quite a bit. I often look at oil related information while overseas. Nearly always, even oils as viscous as 20W-50 are recommended in modern engines in high temperature environments.


Very true. I live in Central America and every OM I've seen (including a 2014 Prius I saw last week) recommends up to 20w50 based on temperature. 10w30 is considered a thin oil here.
 
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
As the climate grows warmer, in a lot of places the winters will no longer be very severe either.


Horse feathers.
Even the "Global Warming" advocates are no longer using the term "Global Warming". Now they say "Climate Change", because after 20+ years of study, they couldn't prove that the planet was warming. As far as "Climate Change" is concerned, name a time in the history of the planet when the climate wasn't changing.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
As the climate grows warmer, in a lot of places the winters will no longer be very severe either.


Horse feathers.
Even the "Global Warming" advocates are no longer using the term "Global Warming". Now they say "Climate Change", because after 20+ years of study, they couldn't prove that the planet was warming. As far as "Climate Change" is concerned, name a time in the history of the planet when the climate wasn't changing.


I don't know why everyone has to go political in these threads, but that is patently false. They use Global Climate Change because overall warming temperatures can actually induce drastically more unstable weather patterns and to prevent dopes in the internet from using anecdotal personal experiences to "disprove" Global warming (which may in fact have been spawned by global warming). It doesn't just mean we're getting warmer, it also means there will be increased spasms of cold and snowstorms. And the opposite is true of your assertion. Critics, the ones that aren't completely shamelessly lying, now conclude there is no question we are getting warmer, but what if anything practical we can do about it...
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
As the climate grows warmer, in a lot of places the winters will no longer be very severe either.


Horse feathers.
Even the "Global Warming" advocates are no longer using the term "Global Warming". Now they say "Climate Change", because after 20+ years of study, they couldn't prove that the planet was warming. As far as "Climate Change" is concerned, name a time in the history of the planet when the climate wasn't changing.


I don't know why everyone has to go political in these threads, but that is patently false. They use Global Climate Change because overall warming temperatures can actually induce drastically more unstable weather patterns and to prevent dopes in the internet from using anecdotal personal experiences to "disprove" Global warming (which may in fact have been spawned by global warming). It doesn't just mean we're getting warmer, it also means there will be increased spasms of cold and snowstorms. And the opposite is true of your assertion. Critics, the ones that aren't completely shamelessly lying, now conclude there is no question we are getting warmer, but what if anything practical we can do about it...
Everyone I have spoken to about Global warming agrees that it is a bunch of political bull. I didn't think anyone believed it was still an issue.
 
We happen to be in global "cool cycle"' which is a short term phenomenon, and will come to an end. At that point, the longer term warming trend will be back. Even if you don't 'believe' in global warming, the scary part is the effects if increasing CO2 concentrations in atmosphere and subsequently in the worlds oceans. At some point acidity will reach the point that mollusks won't be able to be to form shells. I hope i'm long gone when that happens. Sorry to propagate the OT...
 
I see we have a few brain washed people in here. Wake up and think for your selves. Did you know that the majority of new weather stations were built in black top parking lots? Oh yeah it's getting hotter. Well Duh!
 
And you know this how?

Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
We happen to be in global "cool cycle"' which is a short term phenomenon, and will come to an end. At that point, the longer term warming trend will be back. Even if you don't 'believe' in global warming, the scary part is the effects if increasing CO2 concentrations in atmosphere and subsequently in the worlds oceans. At some point acidity will reach the point that mollusks won't be able to be to form shells. I hope i'm long gone when that happens. Sorry to propagate the OT...
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And you know this how?

Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
We happen to be in global "cool cycle"' which is a short term phenomenon, and will come to an end. At that point, the longer term warming trend will be back. Even if you don't 'believe' in global warming, the scary part is the effects if increasing CO2 concentrations in atmosphere and subsequently in the worlds oceans. At some point acidity will reach the point that mollusks won't be able to be to form shells. I hope i'm long gone when that happens. Sorry to propagate the OT...

Al Gore told him.
 
Skipping right to argumentum ad hominem I see.

Hopefully a mod will delete this whole section of the thread. In the meantime, it's not difficult to find real evidence of rising CO2 [] or real effects of rising global temps trending since the industrial revolution. Anyone that wants to keep their head in the sand has that right, but overwhelming evidence says we are headed for some serious cocequences. Maybe sooner or maybe later, but denying it won't make it go away. Just as a cyclic downturn in global temps can make it look short term that things are "ok"' then coversely a few years of above average ocean temps can make things look real bad in a hurry. Of course then distractors will say it is only a short term effect. You can't have it both ways.
 
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Is there anything that 10W-30 can do that 5W-30 can't do?


Yeah, it's typically a better oil that flows only a little bit slower in colder temps and 10W-30 also has other properties that are a little better IMO than 5w-30. Thus, if you don't need an oil that is "thin" at start-up due to many modern new engine's tighter tolerances that can impede oil flow, then you go with 10w-30. BTW, it's always very WISE to run what the manufacturer recommends for your engine. Why? Because they've put in a lot of time and money to research the best grade of oil that is applicable to your engine - that's why.

10W-30 CD (Diesel service grade) is predominately what we have been using in our entire fleet of engines where I work. There are approximately 30 internal combustion (gas and diesel) engines in our fleet. It's much more cost efficient to have only ONE grade of oil on hand, and it's a lot easier to prevent f-ups by mixing grades of oils unintentionally by workers that may add make-up oil here and there. Many people that are just worker-bee's don't necessarily know what they are doing, so trying to keep things as "idiot proof" as possible is a common theme where I work.

SAE 10W-30 is still pretty much hands-down the most universal oil you can use in our Upstate NY climate. We use it in small air-cooled engines, liquid-cooled engines, both gas and diesels. Works great, and have never had any major engine issues due to lubrication. Most all of our equipment is 20+ years old too.

Now, I have switched many of our more tired and larger diesels that don't run in the winter months much (or at all) over to SAE 15w-40 CD. Was it necessary? Well, probably not, but I did it due to personal preference, and to attempt to cut back on oil consumption a little bit between changes. I'd honestly prefer to run straight SAE 30 in some of them, but you never know when we're going to run those diesels in the winter months, and I don't want to risk any issues going that heavy in case it gets too cold out at any given time during the winter.

As for the higher temps, we change our engine oils often enough to where thermal breakdown and other issues with lighter oils don't much come into play. Truth be told, our climate is fairly moderate compared to many areas that get much colder in the winter, so I probably could run 30 wt in many of them and be just fine.

In case you wondered where I get my beliefs from, well... I'm a professional fleet maintenance and repair/fabrication mechanic that has been in this field for a very long time now, and as stated previously, I've never lost an engine due to lubrication issues.

One last note... And I'm NOT kidding about this at all. The vast majority of "quick-lube" places use bulk 10W-30 engine oil in EVERYTHING that comes through their door. Your car could call for something exotic, and guess what... it's getting 10W-30. For the most part, that's proof enough to show that 10w-30 is very "universal". HOWEVER, that reason alone is yet one of many other reasons that I always do my own oil changes and I never recommend any kind of "quick-lube" place to anyone.
 
Originally Posted By: T-A-L
One last note... And I'm NOT kidding about this at all. The vast majority of "quick-lube" places use bulk 10W-30 engine oil in EVERYTHING that comes through their door. Your car could call for something exotic, and guess what... it's getting 10W-30. For the most part, that's proof enough to show that 10w-30 is very "universal". HOWEVER, that reason alone is yet one of many other reasons that I always do my own oil changes and I never recommend any kind of "quick-lube" place to anyone.

Not around here. 5W-30 is pretty normal. I don't have a whole lot of experience with quick lube places, but I did take one into Jiffy Lube as a favor for someone, and I clearly saw the reel said 5W-30.

I did take my wife's 2002 Civic for an oil change at a couple of shops with full repair services - mostly because I couldn't reach the filter. They actually charged a couple of bucks extra for 5W-20.
 
So you use a CD oil in the IC engines?

And it's not "typically a better oil". But you said IMO so OK...

Originally Posted By: T-A-L
Yeah, it's typically a better oil that flows only a little bit slower in colder temps and 10W-30 also has other properties that are a little better IMO than 5w-30. Thus, if you don't need an oil that is "thin" at start-up due to many modern new engine's tighter tolerances that can impede oil flow, then you go with 10w-30. BTW, it's always very WISE to run what the manufacturer recommends for your engine. Why? Because they've put in a lot of time and money to research the best grade of oil that is applicable to your engine - that's why.

10W-30 CD (Diesel service grade) is predominately what we have been using in our entire fleet of engines where I work. There are approximately 30 internal combustion (gas and diesel) engines in our fleet. It's much more cost efficient to have only ONE grade of oil on hand, and it's a lot easier to prevent f-ups by mixing grades of oils unintentionally by workers that may add make-up oil here and there. Many people that are just worker-bee's don't necessarily know what they are doing, so trying to keep things as "idiot proof" as possible is a common theme where I work.

SAE 10W-30 is still pretty much hands-down the most universal oil you can use in our Upstate NY climate. We use it in small air-cooled engines, liquid-cooled engines, both gas and diesels. Works great, and have never had any major engine issues due to lubrication. Most all of our equipment is 20+ years old too.

Now, I have switched many of our more tired and larger diesels that don't run in the winter months much (or at all) over to SAE 15w-40 CD. Was it necessary? Well, probably not, but I did it due to personal preference, and to attempt to cut back on oil consumption a little bit between changes. I'd honestly prefer to run straight SAE 30 in some of them, but you never know when we're going to run those diesels in the winter months, and I don't want to risk any issues going that heavy in case it gets too cold out at any given time during the winter.

As for the higher temps, we change our engine oils often enough to where thermal breakdown and other issues with lighter oils don't much come into play. Truth be told, our climate is fairly moderate compared to many areas that get much colder in the winter, so I probably could run 30 wt in many of them and be just fine.

In case you wondered where I get my beliefs from, well... I'm a professional fleet maintenance and repair/fabrication mechanic that has been in this field for a very long time now, and as stated previously, I've never lost an engine due to lubrication issues.

One last note... And I'm NOT kidding about this at all. The vast majority of "quick-lube" places use bulk 10W-30 engine oil in EVERYTHING that comes through their door. Your car could call for something exotic, and guess what... it's getting 10W-30. For the most part, that's proof enough to show that 10w-30 is very "universal". HOWEVER, that reason alone is yet one of many other reasons that I always do my own oil changes and I never recommend any kind of "quick-lube" place to anyone.
 
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Originally Posted By: zeuloa
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Clevy


As far as 10w-30 being obsolete here no oem is calling for it in new vehicles.


Conversely, Nearly every manufacturer allows/permits or recommends 10W-30 in their vehicles in countries other than the United States.

I work in Aviation and travel quite a bit. I often look at oil related information while overseas. Nearly always, even oils as viscous as 20W-50 are recommended in modern engines in high temperature environments.


Very true. I live in Central America and every OM I've seen (including a 2014 Prius I saw last week) recommends up to 20w50 based on temperature. 10w30 is considered a thin oil here.


I agree with you! i lived in El Salvador for a year and 10w30 is a rare and thin find. everything seemed to be 15w40 or 20w50.
 
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
Well, YPW, in the Bay Area 10W-30 will work fine. 10W-30 will do anywhere the temperature is 0 degrees F. or above.

It's still a matter of fuel economy where a 5W-30 is selected in a new car over 10W-30. There's less parasitic drag when starting, and that affects CAFE numbers.

Some high performance engines have funky requirements. I was looking up what goes in a Nissan GT-R, and the owners manual specifically says that Mobil 1 0W-40 is the factory fill.

Personally I haven't used 10W-30 in years.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I did take my wife's 2002 Civic for an oil change at a couple of shops with full repair services - mostly because I couldn't reach the filter. They actually charged a couple of bucks extra for 5W-20.

Agreed. There are some lube distributors that still supply 10w-30 cheaper than 5w-30, but that's get more rare all the time. It's usually 5w-30 cheaper than 5w-20 now. I'd be more concerned about getting saddled with 5w-30 in a 5w-20 application at a quick lube than 10w-30 in a 5w-30 or 5w-20 application, since the money is to be saved by buying 5w-30 instead of 5w-20.

Originally Posted By: kschachn
So you use a CD oil in the IC engines?

I'm glad you said something. I bit my tongue. What decade is this, by the way, the 1950s? I thought the notion that CJ-4 wasn't as good as CI-4+ was dead, but CD?
 
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