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Is 10W-30 really obsolete?
- Thread starter Merkava_4
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Is there anything that 10W-30 can do that 5W-30 can't do?
Maybe not, at least for gasoline engines.
There was a time when 10W-30 was recommended rather than 5W-30 because of shearing, but that doesn't seem to be the problem it once was.
The universal use of fuel injection in gasoline motor vehicle engines also made fuel dillution less of a factor, which may have made 5W-30 seem safer.
I have some 10W-30 syn blend and syn in my stash that I only bought becasue it was dirt cheap.
It's fine for summer use in most gasoline engines.
Is there anything that 10W-30 can do that 5W-30 can't do?
Maybe not, at least for gasoline engines.
There was a time when 10W-30 was recommended rather than 5W-30 because of shearing, but that doesn't seem to be the problem it once was.
The universal use of fuel injection in gasoline motor vehicle engines also made fuel dillution less of a factor, which may have made 5W-30 seem safer.
I have some 10W-30 syn blend and syn in my stash that I only bought becasue it was dirt cheap.
It's fine for summer use in most gasoline engines.
When 10W-30 oil came out it was the preferred Winter oil. Guys were dumping 30wt from their sumps for this "all season" motor oil.... Now it is good for Summer use in the lawn mower?....times change if you live long enough!
That said, I use it in the 94 Wrangler with no complaints.
That said, I use it in the 94 Wrangler with no complaints.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I think 10w30 synthetic is obsolete.
10w30 dino isn't.
That pretty much sums it up.
Virtually no auto manufacturer in NA, Europe or Japan specifies the 10W-30 grade any longer and of course a syn' 10W-30 has never been specified because it is technically redundant.
I'm going to bring up my go to engine every time this topic comes up. Chrysler continued to recommend 10w30 in the 3.5l HO V6 until the introduction of the Pentastar 3.6l V6. That switch didn't happen until 2011. There had to be a reason.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I think 10w30 synthetic is obsolete.
10w30 dino isn't.
That pretty much sums it up.
Virtually no auto manufacturer in NA, Europe or Japan specifies the 10W-30 grade any longer and of course a syn' 10W-30 has never been specified because it is technically redundant.
I'm going to bring up my go to engine every time this topic comes up. Chrysler continued to recommend 10w30 in the 3.5l HO V6 until the introduction of the Pentastar 3.6l V6. That switch didn't happen until 2011. There had to be a reason.
Originally Posted By: supercity
Maybe in America where they are the same price. But how would your opinion change if 5w30 was generally 50% more expensive?
Obsolescence is heavily based on price not performance.
I'd be buyin' 10W-30 & never even glance at the 5W-30...
Maybe in America where they are the same price. But how would your opinion change if 5w30 was generally 50% more expensive?
Obsolescence is heavily based on price not performance.
I'd be buyin' 10W-30 & never even glance at the 5W-30...
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Both cars have the same exact engine.
I'd just attribute that to evolution of oil quality and evolution of manual wording. There is always plenty of bureaucratic inertia when it comes to altering things in the manual.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I guess that it would be also only fair to limit the discussion of uber VI, thin oils to the PCMO portion of the board....
That needs its own separate thread like GC.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I remember there were some cars that only specified 10W-30 or heavier weights, such as the Acura NSX or the Honda S2000. There are still a lot of cars on the road with 10W-30 as the preferred weight. That might not mean a modern 5W-30 wouldn't work just fine, but most people don't tinker with that.
I think that's the best characterization so far. Just because most of us here might think 10w-30 is superseded by 5w-30 in just about every conceivable application doesn't mean that the general public would even consider the switch.
Originally Posted By: supercity
Maybe in America where they are the same price. But how would your opinion change if 5w30 was generally 50% more expensive?
Exactly. Up here, rollbacks on conventional tend to include 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30, so 10w-30 is rarely cheaper, unless it's the last stuff left on the shelf at a big sale. On occasion, though, I have seen 10w-30 excluded from sales, but that's uncommon. Shops sometimes still get a better deal on 10w-30 over 5w-30 in bulk.
Much of this talk of obsolescence goes to semantics. It's obsolete in that there are really no applications where a 10w-30 is absolutely necessary and you cannot choose an appropriate 5w-30 or 0w-30 (or even more obsolete SAE 30). But, that argument gets circular in a hurry, since a 0w-30 or a 5w-30 can be replaced with a 10w-30 and the world won't go boom.
I rarely pick up 10w-30. There's some in my F-150, and that's a legacy of a situation I described above. The QS sale was too good to pass up, but someone already cleaned out the 5w-30. From an "obsolescence" standpoint, I have no reason to buy 10w-30. It would work fine in either of my vehicles (or any of them I've had for years). But, if they're outside in the winter, 5w-30 is preferred. There's no disadvantage to running the 5w-30 in the summer, so eliminate the seasonal oil change and run 5w-30 year round.
If they yanked every 10w-30 SN/GF-5 oil off the shelf, it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least.
Both cars have the same exact engine.
I'd just attribute that to evolution of oil quality and evolution of manual wording. There is always plenty of bureaucratic inertia when it comes to altering things in the manual.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I guess that it would be also only fair to limit the discussion of uber VI, thin oils to the PCMO portion of the board....
That needs its own separate thread like GC.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I remember there were some cars that only specified 10W-30 or heavier weights, such as the Acura NSX or the Honda S2000. There are still a lot of cars on the road with 10W-30 as the preferred weight. That might not mean a modern 5W-30 wouldn't work just fine, but most people don't tinker with that.
I think that's the best characterization so far. Just because most of us here might think 10w-30 is superseded by 5w-30 in just about every conceivable application doesn't mean that the general public would even consider the switch.
Originally Posted By: supercity
Maybe in America where they are the same price. But how would your opinion change if 5w30 was generally 50% more expensive?
Exactly. Up here, rollbacks on conventional tend to include 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30, so 10w-30 is rarely cheaper, unless it's the last stuff left on the shelf at a big sale. On occasion, though, I have seen 10w-30 excluded from sales, but that's uncommon. Shops sometimes still get a better deal on 10w-30 over 5w-30 in bulk.
Much of this talk of obsolescence goes to semantics. It's obsolete in that there are really no applications where a 10w-30 is absolutely necessary and you cannot choose an appropriate 5w-30 or 0w-30 (or even more obsolete SAE 30). But, that argument gets circular in a hurry, since a 0w-30 or a 5w-30 can be replaced with a 10w-30 and the world won't go boom.
I rarely pick up 10w-30. There's some in my F-150, and that's a legacy of a situation I described above. The QS sale was too good to pass up, but someone already cleaned out the 5w-30. From an "obsolescence" standpoint, I have no reason to buy 10w-30. It would work fine in either of my vehicles (or any of them I've had for years). But, if they're outside in the winter, 5w-30 is preferred. There's no disadvantage to running the 5w-30 in the summer, so eliminate the seasonal oil change and run 5w-30 year round.
If they yanked every 10w-30 SN/GF-5 oil off the shelf, it wouldn't hurt my feelings in the least.
Originally Posted By: supercity
Maybe in America where they are the same price. But how would your opinion change if 5w30 was generally 50% more expensive?
Obsolescence is heavily based on price not performance.
Exactly.... I live in Central America, and drive a 2010 Japan built Toyota Corolla with 3ZZ-FE engine. Recommended OC is 10,000 km or 5,000 km severe duty.
The owners manual specifies from 20w50 to 5w30 based on expected temperature at next oil change.
There are 2 Toyota dealers here - One uses and recommends as of recently TGMO 10w30 for all gas engines, the other just uses and recommends TGMO 20w50 (this dealer told me 10w30 is to low for the hot temperature here!). Both of these are conventional. Price for these 2 oils is about $21 USD/gallon. TGMO oils here are made by Chevron in El Salvador BTW.
Synthetics are very scarce here, and the ones available are mostly 5w40, with some 5w30 and 10w30. The cheapest synthetic I've found is Havoline for about $7.50/qt.
Maybe in America where they are the same price. But how would your opinion change if 5w30 was generally 50% more expensive?
Obsolescence is heavily based on price not performance.
Exactly.... I live in Central America, and drive a 2010 Japan built Toyota Corolla with 3ZZ-FE engine. Recommended OC is 10,000 km or 5,000 km severe duty.
The owners manual specifies from 20w50 to 5w30 based on expected temperature at next oil change.
There are 2 Toyota dealers here - One uses and recommends as of recently TGMO 10w30 for all gas engines, the other just uses and recommends TGMO 20w50 (this dealer told me 10w30 is to low for the hot temperature here!). Both of these are conventional. Price for these 2 oils is about $21 USD/gallon. TGMO oils here are made by Chevron in El Salvador BTW.
Synthetics are very scarce here, and the ones available are mostly 5w40, with some 5w30 and 10w30. The cheapest synthetic I've found is Havoline for about $7.50/qt.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Nope, not at all. Certainly out of fashion here though. Plenty of vehicles still driving around that the manual specs 10w30 as preferred (such as my Jeep).
20w50 is obsolete for all but obscure uses, not 10w30.
This thread is another example of the classic BITOG contradictions too... compare 10w30 vs 5w30 and "today's 5w30's are so good there's no need for 10w30" are typical responses. But peruse a typical 5w20 vs 5w30 thread and "the 5w30 will most likely shear to a 20 grade anyway" are common posts.
Can't have it both ways. I still find 10w30 quite useful, and just about anything will run great on it.
Hehehe. So true. Good one.
As far as 10w-30 being obsolete here no oem is calling for it in new vehicles. The last modern engine I've seen it need for was the 3.5 Chrysler engine. I find it interesting that even today's modern lubes and all the choices Chrysler still called for a 10w-30. Must have been for a reason given all the choices they could have used.
For diesels 10w-30 is the latest and greatest so I don't see it being pulled off the shelves any time soon. That being said with the multitude of older vehicles on the the there is still a large pcmo market.
Once there isn't a market for it it will become more difficult to find but it will never be gone. 20w-50 is still on the shelves and when was the last engine built that called for it. Even motorcycles are going thinner. Harley is the only manufacturer I can think of that still calls for it,yet it's still on the shelves at every store you go in to.
Nope, not at all. Certainly out of fashion here though. Plenty of vehicles still driving around that the manual specs 10w30 as preferred (such as my Jeep).
20w50 is obsolete for all but obscure uses, not 10w30.
This thread is another example of the classic BITOG contradictions too... compare 10w30 vs 5w30 and "today's 5w30's are so good there's no need for 10w30" are typical responses. But peruse a typical 5w20 vs 5w30 thread and "the 5w30 will most likely shear to a 20 grade anyway" are common posts.
Can't have it both ways. I still find 10w30 quite useful, and just about anything will run great on it.
Hehehe. So true. Good one.
As far as 10w-30 being obsolete here no oem is calling for it in new vehicles. The last modern engine I've seen it need for was the 3.5 Chrysler engine. I find it interesting that even today's modern lubes and all the choices Chrysler still called for a 10w-30. Must have been for a reason given all the choices they could have used.
For diesels 10w-30 is the latest and greatest so I don't see it being pulled off the shelves any time soon. That being said with the multitude of older vehicles on the the there is still a large pcmo market.
Once there isn't a market for it it will become more difficult to find but it will never be gone. 20w-50 is still on the shelves and when was the last engine built that called for it. Even motorcycles are going thinner. Harley is the only manufacturer I can think of that still calls for it,yet it's still on the shelves at every store you go in to.
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
CATERHAM disagrees with you and wants you to go 0W-30 or less
As to the 10W-30 thing. I still think people assume it "doesnt shear" as to the higher W number vs the second number, which really does look like it starts out as 10 then goes to 30 when hot lol
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
CATERHAM disagrees with you and wants you to go 0W-30 or less
As to the 10W-30 thing. I still think people assume it "doesnt shear" as to the higher W number vs the second number, which really does look like it starts out as 10 then goes to 30 when hot lol
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
CATERHAM disagrees with you and wants you to go 0W-30 or less
And not all of us agree with CATERHAM, of course if I lived were it regularly fell below zero in the winter(fat chance) I may feel same...
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
CATERHAM disagrees with you and wants you to go 0W-30 or less
And not all of us agree with CATERHAM, of course if I lived were it regularly fell below zero in the winter(fat chance) I may feel same...
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
CATERHAM disagrees with you and wants you to go 0W-30 or less
As to the 10W-30 thing. I still think people assume it "doesnt shear" as to the higher W number vs the second number, which really does look like it starts out as 10 then goes to 30 when hot lol
LMAO Im sure he does, Im pretty happy running 10w30.
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
CATERHAM disagrees with you and wants you to go 0W-30 or less
As to the 10W-30 thing. I still think people assume it "doesnt shear" as to the higher W number vs the second number, which really does look like it starts out as 10 then goes to 30 when hot lol
LMAO Im sure he does, Im pretty happy running 10w30.
Hi Chris,
Originally Posted By: Chris142
10w30 will be around for a long time still.
I agree. My first exposure to 10W-30 was around 1954 in New Zealand - almost 60 years ago
The first 10W-30 on the Market there was Mobiloil Special, sold in a gold coloured container - and almost at a gold price too!!
It is an enduring viscosity with still a long way to go IMO
Originally Posted By: Chris142
10w30 will be around for a long time still.
I agree. My first exposure to 10W-30 was around 1954 in New Zealand - almost 60 years ago
The first 10W-30 on the Market there was Mobiloil Special, sold in a gold coloured container - and almost at a gold price too!!
It is an enduring viscosity with still a long way to go IMO
Published by Chevron Oronite 9/10/12. 10W-30 still has a long long way to go.
Patman
Staff member
I've been saying for years now that 10w30 is obsolete, mainly because there really is no logical reason to choose it over 5w30. Sure, on paper the 10w30 might put up slightly better numbers in a few different categories, but out there in the real world you could run 5w30 in anything that had previously called for 10w30 and it wouldn't hurt the longevity of that engine one bit.
Another thing I've been saying for years now is that 5w30 can do everything that 10w30 can, only better, because it has the added ability of flowing better on startup (especially in the winter, but it's still relevant even in summer)
It might only be a few years time before I'm saying the same thing about 5w30, and that 0w30 has it beat, but there just aren't enough 0w30s commonly available to say that just yet.
And yet again, the same argument might be said for 0w20 over 5w20 as well, and much sooner than you think.
Another thing I've been saying for years now is that 5w30 can do everything that 10w30 can, only better, because it has the added ability of flowing better on startup (especially in the winter, but it's still relevant even in summer)
It might only be a few years time before I'm saying the same thing about 5w30, and that 0w30 has it beat, but there just aren't enough 0w30s commonly available to say that just yet.
And yet again, the same argument might be said for 0w20 over 5w20 as well, and much sooner than you think.
Are you guys saying it would be safe for me to run 5W-30 in my Buick 3800 ?
Owners manual says to run 10W-30 above 0 degrees F and 5W-30 below 61 degrees F.
Owners manual says to run 10W-30 above 0 degrees F and 5W-30 below 61 degrees F.
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
I live in Texas and have been running 10w30 in my 2001 Monte Carlo year round for 13 years.
Ha! I run 10w30 year round here. With 100+ temps in the areas I drive it makes zero difference. And it's always on the shelf when the 5w30 is sold out.
I live in Texas and have been running 10w30 in my 2001 Monte Carlo year round for 13 years.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Are you guys saying it would be safe for me to run 5W-30 in my Buick 3800 ?
I'd do it without question. The 10w-30 in my F-150 right now is the exception, rather than the rule. I found MaxLife 5w-30 held up well to fuel dilution, and ran that quite often.
I initially chose the MaxLife (and 15w-40 summer fill) when the leaks got excessive. But, aside from that, I preferred 5w-30 year round and that's what's in its future; the Defy is already on the shelf.
Are you guys saying it would be safe for me to run 5W-30 in my Buick 3800 ?
I'd do it without question. The 10w-30 in my F-150 right now is the exception, rather than the rule. I found MaxLife 5w-30 held up well to fuel dilution, and ran that quite often.
I initially chose the MaxLife (and 15w-40 summer fill) when the leaks got excessive. But, aside from that, I preferred 5w-30 year round and that's what's in its future; the Defy is already on the shelf.
Some Chryslers strongly suggest 10-30, and warn against 5-30.
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