Infiniti Q50 (VR30DDTT) | can't make up my mind on oil...

zigziggy

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
Messages
46
Wut?

The oil thins as it warms up...

What I tried to say is I see no real reason or benefit running 5w40 in my application in regards to where my car is and how I drive it. I'm currently on 5w30 and I'm ok with leaving it at that.

All I'm looking for here is low saps 5w30 oil with lower noack value. If I lived in Europe, I'd have more options but here my choices are limited.
 

zigziggy

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
Messages
46
Yes, people don't seem to understand that the Winter rating and the hot viscosity Grade are two separate things, measured two different ways.
I understand this very well but what I don't understand is how would I benefit from 5w40 vs 5w30 I'm running right now. As I mentioned, the majority of Q community runs 5w30. Only a few run 5w40. In addition, the last winter was pretty cold, I think the lowest we've ever seen since the 60s and it was around 1 degree F (-17C). That said, the 0w20 that Nissan recommends would flow better in cold than 5w40. I need something that will suit both hot and cold with great protection.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
52,243
Location
Ontario, Canada
I understand this very well but what I don't understand is how would I benefit from 5w40 vs 5w30 I'm running right now. As I mentioned, the majority of Q community runs 5w30. Only a few run 5w40. In addition, the last winter was pretty cold, I think the lowest we've ever seen since the 60s and it was around 1 degree F (-17C). That said, the 0w20 that Nissan recommends would flow better in cold than 5w40. I need something that will suit both hot and cold with great protection.
0W-40?
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
103
I'll try to make life easy for you Mobil 1 5w-30 Extended Performance (picture attached). 12 months is pushing it with short tripping. I'd drain and fill a little sooner.



you ask about C1 ...etc oils. This is a gasoline car right? Those C ratings are for diesels, and low saps has to do with diesel particulate filter protection. For gas engines "mid saps" is whats spec'd in api SP. None of this low saps stuff applies to your car, unless your Infiniti told you in confidence that it identifies now as a turbo diesel. In that case just do whatever the car is telling you and be supportive of its new identity.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2058.jpg
    IMG_2058.jpg
    148.9 KB · Views: 7
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
103
It seems like a common misconception to think an oil starts as a 5w and thickens to a 40w as it warms up
Yes, and to clarify for those who are misunderstanding multi weight motor oil:

The first number is the 'winter' weight: it describes the viscosity range when the oil is cold, and can be used as a cold flow certification. 0w are only needed in very sub freezing temps. 5w's work really good down to normal winter temps and are fine in environments where you are not in single digit or negative degrees F morning starts.

The second number is the viscosity at operating temp. And yes, multiweight oils don't "thicken as they warm" they simply thin out less as they warm, the higher the second number the less they thin out as they warm.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
15,801
Location
Colorado Springs
What I tried to say is I see no real reason or benefit running 5w40 in my application in regards to where my car is and how I drive it. I'm currently on 5w30 and I'm ok with leaving it at that.

All I'm looking for here is low saps 5w30 oil with lower noack value. If I lived in Europe, I'd have more options but here my choices are limited.
If you want Low-SAPS, low Noack oil, you must go with European oils. That is it! Where do you drive car is irrelevant if you want oil like that.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 is readily available in Wal mart. Has very good HTHS and low Noack, probably in 7-8% range. Mobil1 ESP 0W30 is another excellent option available in AZ and AAP.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
15,801
Location
Colorado Springs
as long as I can find it in low saps/noack. Mobile 1 esp doesn't appear to be one.
It is!
Mobil1 ESP 0W30 has Noack 9.1% (better than any ILSAC oil). It is Low SAPS oil. Sulfated Ash is a byproduct and M1 ESP has a low SA byproduct. It is DPF/GPF compatible, which is something your emissions system does not have. I do not understand why you are going Low-SAPS, but if that is your requirement, that oil is overkill for your engine.

Edit: I see why you want Low-SAPS oils. Go PPE L 5W30, M1 ESP 0W30.
Very good option that I use is Motul X-Clean+ 5W30. If you want thicker Low-SAPS oil, go Motul X-Clean 5W40 GEN2.
Any oil approved for MB229.51/52 is top choice, and you won't find anything better in the Low-SAPS category than oils approved for that specification for street and medium track use.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
15,801
Location
Colorado Springs
A 3 liter engine that makes 300hp via forced induction in a USA summer, would be crazy to run thinner than a 0w-40/5w-40.
My Nissan dealer in germany filled 5w-40 in my Nissan VQ series engine a 4.0L V6 which is much less stressed.
Your oil temperature depends on the capability of your cooling system. Ambient temperature is not a big deal regarding overheating issues, oil temperature etc.. Altitude is!
Also, thicker oil=more resistance=more heat.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
103
I have never used any oil with the words energy or resource conserving or long life on the label.
I think Resource Conserving is just a 1.0% Sulfated Ash Limit for API SP RC. "Full SAPS" oils i think can only carry an SN/SN+ rating.

Now then, high sulfated ash can come from sulfur and low end group II motor oil that has a lot of impurities in it because its poorly refined. No one should be using that stuff. So by setting a 1% SA limit, its a back door way of requiring a better quality Group II+ or Group III/IV/V.

Also high SA can come from a great base oil with lots of mettalic wear modifiers: lots of zinc, phosphorous and moly additives. The industry has developed some wear modifiers ("organic") which don't leave much residue behind when burning. I have no idea if they are as good as ZDDP & molly but they can't be utter crap. Dexos 1 gen2/3 oils that limit saps to 1.0%/0.9% don't show bad UOAs. And while some one will say UOAs can't tell the story, i disagree when it comes to wear, one of the most useful pieces of the tool is wear particle count and contamination. We don't see any increased wear in mid saps oils vs the older full saps blends.

You all can keep running your miracle Mobil 1 0w-40 FS oil ofcourse. Those slides (overkill?) posted of the greatly reduced high temp deposits looks really good. I'd like to see it side by side with m1 5w-30 ep, bc i doubt mobil formulates ep like crap and is keeping its lowest oxidation/ best deposit control tech all inside these legendary 0w-40 bottles.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
15,801
Location
Colorado Springs
I think Resource Conserving is just a 1.0% Sulfated Ash Limit for API SP RC. "Full SAPS" oils i think can only carry an SN/SN+ rating.

Now then, high sulfated ash can come from sulfur and low end group II motor oil that has a lot of impurities in it because its poorly refined. No one should be using that stuff. So by setting a 1% SA limit, its a back door way of requiring a better quality Group II+ or Group III/IV/V.

Also high SA can come from a great base oil with lots of mettalic wear modifiers: lots of zinc, phosphorous and moly additives. The industry has developed some wear modifiers ("organic") which don't leave much residue behind when burning. I have no idea if they are as good as ZDDP & molly but they can't be utter crap. Dexos 1 gen2/3 oils that limit saps to 0.9%/0.8% don't show bad UOAs. And while some one will say UOAs can't tell the story, i disagree when it comes to wear, one of the most useful pieces of the tool is wear particle count and contamination. We don't see any increased wear in mid saps oils vs the older full saps blends.

You all can keep running your miracle Mobil 1 0w-40 FS oil ofcourse. Those slides (overkill?) posted of the greatly reduced high temp deposits looks really good. I'd like to see it side by side with m1 5w-30 ep, bc i doubt mobil formulates ep like crap and is keeping its lowest oxidation/ best deposit control tech all inside these legendary 0w-40 bottles.
Incorrect. The energy resource is low HTHS oil.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is full SAPS and API SP.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
103

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
52,243
Location
Ontario, Canada
as long as I can find it in low saps/noack. Mobile 1 esp doesn't appear to be one.
The Mobil ESP products are designed around Euro GPF requirements, which I suspect your vehicle doesn't have. Ergo, it's already overkill, I'd have no issue running one of the ESP oils in your application. You could look at the new Mobil 1 Supercar 0W-40 too, that's another option, though I tend to prefer the Euro approvals.
 

zigziggy

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
Messages
46
I'll try to make life easy for you Mobil 1 5w-30 Extended Performance (picture attached). 12 months is pushing it with short tripping. I'd drain and fill a little sooner.

you ask about C1 ...etc oils. This is a gasoline car right? Those C ratings are for diesels, and low saps has to do with diesel particulate filter protection. For gas engines "mid saps" is whats spec'd in api SP. None of this low saps stuff applies to your car, unless your Infiniti told you in confidence that it identifies now as a turbo diesel. In that case just do whatever the car is telling you and be supportive of its new identity.

C1 or C4 are both low-SAPS oils compatible with gas and diesel engines - source: https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

ACEA C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s.

ACEA C4
Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s.

Unfortunately, here in the States we do not have such oils; I spent many hours searching but found nothing. I want to use this oil because I know a number of people in Europe using C1/C4 oils in their Q50's with the same engine with great results to the point that they don't even run a catch can on their cars. Another reason I want to run this kind of oil in my Infiniti is because of what I went through with my Kia. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture, but the intake valves were just filthy after Valvoline 5W30 Advanced that I've been using since 2018. I don't want to deal with anything similar on my Infiniti.
If you want Low-SAPS, low Noack oil, you must go with European oils. That is it! Where do you drive car is irrelevant if you want oil like that.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 is readily available in Wal mart. Has very good HTHS and low Noack, probably in 7-8% range. Mobil1 ESP 0W30 is another excellent option available in AZ and AAP.

Let's see - Mobil 1™ ESP 0W-30 (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-0w-30/)

1660094771466.png


Sooo, how's 800 phosphorus and 900 zinc is considered a low-SAPS oil? It clearly says C3 spec, and C3 is:

ACEA C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s. (Source: https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php)

The same applies to Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30; it falls under C3 oils (https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/164b290d-20a3-42b0-b40b-fdbdfaa8965d.pdf)
The Mobil ESP products are designed around Euro GPF requirements, which I suspect your vehicle doesn't have. Ergo, it's already overkill, I'd have no issue running one of the ESP oils in your application. You could look at the new Mobil 1 Supercar 0W-40 too, that's another option, though I tend to prefer the Euro approvals.

I don't understand why you think this is "overkill" when low-SAPS oil clearly provides more good than harm. I may even run it in my Kia since our beloved Valvoline Advanced just cakes on its valves. I don't want to deal with CD issues in my Infiniti.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
15,801
Location
Colorado Springs
C1 or C4 are both low-SAPS oils compatible with gas and diesel engines - source: https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

ACEA C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s.

ACEA C4
Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s.

Unfortunately, here in the States we do not have such oils; I spent many hours searching but found nothing. I want to use this oil because I know a number of people in Europe using C1/C4 oils in their Q50's with the same engine with great results to the point that they don't even run a catch can on their cars. Another reason I want to run this kind of oil in my Infiniti is because of what I went through with my Kia. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture, but the intake valves were just filthy after Valvoline 5W30 Advanced that I've been using since 2018. I don't want to deal with anything similar on my Infiniti.


Let's see - Mobil 1™ ESP 0W-30 (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-0w-30/)

View attachment 111823

Sooo, how's 800 phosphorus and 900 zinc is considered a low-SAPS oil? It clearly says C3 spec, and C3 is:

ACEA C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s. (Source: https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php)

The same applies to Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30; it falls under C3 oils (https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/164b290d-20a3-42b0-b40b-fdbdfaa8965d.pdf)


I don't understand why you think this is "overkill" when low-SAPS oil clearly provides more good than harm. I may even run it in my Kia since our beloved Valvoline Advanced just cakes on its valves. I don't want to deal with CD issues in my Infiniti.
AGAIN! Sulfated Ash! Sulfated Ash and Phosphorus! LowSaps oil can have high level of Zinc. Sulfated Ash is BYPRODUCT!!! Short of drawing you a picture, I cannot help you anymore.
 

zigziggy

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
Messages
46
AGAIN! Sulfated Ash! Sulfated Ash and Phosphorus! LowSaps oil can have high level of Zinc. Sulfated Ash is BYPRODUCT!!! Short of drawing you a picture, I cannot help you anymore.

Alright, I appreciate it anyway. I think I mentioned a few times by now that I am specifically looking for lower amounts of phosphorus and zinc...
 

KJH

Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
133
C1 or C4 are both low-SAPS oils compatible with gas and diesel engines - source: https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

ACEA C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s.

ACEA C4
Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s.

Unfortunately, here in the States we do not have such oils; I spent many hours searching but found nothing. I want to use this oil because I know a number of people in Europe using C1/C4 oils in their Q50's with the same engine with great results to the point that they don't even run a catch can on their cars. Another reason I want to run this kind of oil in my Infiniti is because of what I went through with my Kia. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture, but the intake valves were just filthy after Valvoline 5W30 Advanced that I've been using since 2018. I don't want to deal with anything similar on my Infiniti.


Let's see - Mobil 1™ ESP 0W-30 (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-esp-0w-30/)

View attachment 111823

Sooo, how's 800 phosphorus and 900 zinc is considered a low-SAPS oil? It clearly says C3 spec, and C3 is:

ACEA C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s. (Source: https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php)

The same applies to Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30; it falls under C3 oils (https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/164b290d-20a3-42b0-b40b-fdbdfaa8965d.pdf)


I don't understand why you think this is "overkill" when low-SAPS oil clearly provides more good than harm. I may even run it in my Kia since our beloved Valvoline Advanced just cakes on its valves. I don't want to deal with CD issues in my Infiniti.


Your kia has caked valves and burns oil because those 4 cylinders in them are sub-par powerplants overall and known to be extremely hard on oil. They are notorious for the exact issues you mentioned regardless of what oil is used. I am not personally knowledgable enough on oils for your application regarding your infiniti but I keep seeing you refer to your kia motor in this thread and I think you are putting too much weight on those results in regards to your thinking. Also, the users giving you advice in this thread are among the most knowledgable on here.
 
Top