HPL No VII Euro 5W30, 1993 Volvo 240, 8,200 OCI

[Sam_Julier]

I’m not sure what to make of this report. The engine runs incredibly well.

My objective in running HPL is a 10,000 mile OCI. Given this report it looks like I should return to 5,000 mile OCIs.

I’m open to all opinions.

( MOD NOTE: image removed; UOA had personal info on it; see new image further down thread)

 

[spasm3]

I'm not seeing anything bad there.

 

[Passport1]

My experience with the 240 red block is 5W-30 is a bit too thin. I'd try a run of 10W-40.

 

[cptbarkey]

It would be useful to know what mileage their universal averages was based on, if you ask they will answer. Its already known that they match it up with your engine.

Assuming their average is 5k, all the wear elements line up mostly proportionally (eyeballing across) with the mileage. I'm nowhere an expert on those engines, but I think your ppm amounts are OK.

 

[Sam_Julier]

My experience with the 240 red block is 5W-30 is a bit too thin. I'd try a run of 10W-40.

The HTHS vis is 3.5. Is this too thin?

 

[fantastic]

I see no reason to stop your planned 10k runs. In fact there some evidence it's working well. Take Fe for example, another 2,600 miles but 1 ppm from last sample. The Copper & Lead are tracking no different then what they've been so there is no cause for concern there either. I'd say stick with a 10k plan.

 

[Brian123]

The TBN is 5.9 at 8200 Miles, 10,000 miles on HPL looks Attainable. Do another run with this oil and see what the UOA looks like.

 

[pghvolvo]

I'm with @Passport1 in saying keep running a good synthetic 10W30. I've run red blocks from 1981 with a 242 2.1 liter Turbo and a 87 745 2.3 Turbo up until 2009. The thing with the Redblocks is they rarely burn oil even with high miles, but they will leak oil.
My 745T I traded in back in 2009 with 370K miles, the engine was still running well, not burning any oil.

 

[Oillover]

My experience with the 240 red block is 5W-30 is a bit too thin. I'd try a run of 10W-40.

+1
I'd split the difference at a 10w30.
That's what we ran in our red blocks year round with great success.

 

[Sandstorm]

Disregard the foolish lab technician comments. The numbers look great actually. 10K is no issue.

 

[himemsys]

Assuming your 200k UOA is a golden standard, then the aluminum has more than doubled. 2/5.3=.38ppm per 1k miles, vs 7/8.02=.87ppm per 1k miles. However, your lead has only increased from .94ppm per 1k miles to 1.25ppm per 1k miles.

I can see why they suggest one more OCI at a lower mileage. If it's not anything serious, no big deal. If it turns out it is something serious, you'll be kicking yourself for waiting 10k miles.

Can you draw a sample at 5k without dumping the oil?

Personally, I don't think switching to a thicker, higher HTHS oil will make much, if any difference.

 

[Sam_Julier]

Assuming your 200k UOA is a golden standard, then the aluminum has more than doubled. 2/5.3=.38ppm per 1k miles, vs 7/8.02=.87ppm per 1k miles. However, your lead has only increased from .94ppm per 1k miles to 1.25ppm per 1k miles.

I can see why they suggest one more OCI at a lower mileage. If it's not anything serious, no big deal. If it turns out it is something serious, you'll be kicking yourself for waiting 10k miles.

Can you draw a sample at 5k without dumping the oil?

Personally, I don't think switching to a thicker, higher HTHS oil will make much, if any difference.

This makes sense to me. I have a pump to withdraw fluid.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I’m not sure what to make of this report. The engine runs incredibly well.

My objective in running HPL is a 10,000 mile OCI. Given this report it looks like I should return to 5,000 mile OCIs.

I’m open to all opinions.

View attachment 203976

Difficult for me to read. My Adobe only allows a slightly larger pic when zooming. You allowed the darker shadow background right over the most recent UOA. I can read the first three UOAs satisfactorily.

 

[Sam_Julier]

Difficult for me to read. My Adobe only allows a slightly larger pic when zooming. You allowed the darker shadow background right over the most recent UOA. I can read the first three UOAs satisfactorily.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I don't see what the problem is. Everything looks fine. I say go for 12k miles.

Aside from the values being within an ICP's margin of error, higher wear metals don't always indicate more wear is happening. As we know, HPL's oils clean very well. The deposits it cleans up can trap wear metals from previous oil changes that are now being kicked back into suspension as those deposits are dissolved. Notice much of those metals are trending downward in this report with exception of copper. Higher copper often accompanies an oil high in ester due to chelation or the process of the ester removing the oxidative layer on copper containing parts. This isn't a problem as the ester is doing what it's designed to do. I would expect the numbers to continue trending downward with each subsequent report.

I recommend using Polaris or other lab that has oxidation and measures fuel and water dilution with GC. Blackstone has neither.

 

[Sam_Julier]

I don't see what the problem is. Everything looks fine. I say go for 12k miles.

Aside from the values being within an ICP's margin of error, higher wear metals don't always indicate more wear is happening. As we know, HPL's oils clean very well. The deposits it cleans up can trap wear metals from previous oil changes that are now being kicked back into suspension as those deposits are dissolved. Notice much of those metals are trending downward in this report with exception of copper. Higher copper often accompanies an oil high in ester due to chelation or the process of the ester removing the oxidative layer on copper containing parts. This isn't a problem as the ester is doing what it's designed to do. I would expect the numbers to continue trending downward with each subsequent report.

I recommend using Polaris or other lab that has oxidation and measures fuel and water dilution with GC. Blackstone has neither.

Thank you. This is really helpful. I plan to switch oil analysis labs next time.

 

[dnewton3]

Cu, Pb and Al are all tracking fairly steadily with miles; roughly around 1 ppm / 1k miles. We need to understand that there's always going to be variation. I don't have much data at all on this engine, so I can't say what is "normal" in this regard, but I suspect the variation isn't obscene here.

- How many of these UOAs have been on HPL?

- I would agree; more HT/HS isn't likely to affect this at all one way or another

- I'd sample (not OCI) at 5k miles; see where it's at again

- You're trying to ID trends, while keeping in mind that variation will always be present; not time to panic yet, just keep investigating

 

[Sam_Julier]

Cu, Pb and Al are all tracking fairly steadily with miles; roughly around 1 ppm / 1k miles. We need to understand that there's always going to be variation. I don't have much data at all on this engine, so I can't say what is "normal" in this regard, but I suspect the variation isn't obscene here.

- How many of these UOAs have been on HPL?

- I would agree; more HT/HS isn't likely to affect this at all one way or another

- I'd sample (not OCI) at 5k miles; see where it's at again

- You're trying to ID trends, while keeping in mind that variation will always be present; not time to panic yet, just keep investigating

Thank you for your helpful comment.

This is the second UOA running HPL. The first was after 5,200 miles.

I plan to sample at 5k.