HPL no VII pcmo 5w30. 3.5k miles. Big turbo Fiesta ST 175k miles

[Adambomb7777]

I have no fuel leaks, the dilution must be coming from the fuel I’m using (e30, 91 and e85 mixed). No short trips either. Decent report if you ask me.

Also interesting to see this add pack vs the euro one.

I’d like to run this oil longer but I don’t think I can.

Mileage was from 172k miles to 175.5k miles. Fl910s filter was used.

 

[racer12306]

I could definitely see the dilution coming from washdown. Alcohol likes to do that.

 

[demarpaint]

Good thing you did a UOA, and a short OCI.

 

[dnewton3]

I don't understand you comments ...
- you said you think this is a "decent report" (should we take the inference that you believe the wear is acceptable; vis, ox, fuel are also acceptable?)
- you said you don't think you can run the oil "any longer", though you'd like to be able to do so

Do you have data from a VOA? You really can't understand oxidation unless you have a starting point to determine the delta.

For the fuel, why do you not think you have a leak? You have two successive UOAs indicating higher fuel values, with two short OCI durations. You have 175k miles on the car; are the components OE, reman'ed, aftermarket, or what? If there's no leak, how is the fuel getting into the oil? Is the engine aggressively "tuned"?

The Fe is fine; the Tn is the only odd showing, but there's no correlation between Tn and fuel in these two reports, so there's not much to conclude there, so far.

 

[wpod]

I would repost dnewton3's post but it is right above this post. The higher oxi numbers is probably esters in the base oil blend.

 

[Vitamin Yoda]

What's above Mobil 1 when it comes to high quality lubricants? The answer is simple: @High Performance Lubricants. It hardly gets any better than HPL.

@Adambomb7777 you're already running the best motor oil. I believe you have a fuel dilution issue because your engine is running rich, and that's worth investigating. I wouldn't be shocked if your tailpipe is all carboned up with a thick layer of soot.

Have you ever replaced the injectors? Have you tuned the engine? At that high mileage, it's worth taking a closer look at the engine. If there is a chance of lowering fuel dilution, it's worth investigating, because it would allow for longer OCIs.

 

[twX]

That amount of fuel is normal on a GDI engine, and it shouldn't continue to increase as you extend the OCI. I'd take it to 7k and then do another UOA.

The only thing concerning is the combined tin and lead, which indicates some bearing wear, but I doubt it has anything to do with the oil. I'd monitor oil pressure, and monitor the engine with some data logging if you can to make sure everything is right with the tune.

 

[fantastic]

If the first sample is euro then it shows this has less calcium, phos, zinc. As for oil condition it looks like this was short run but I understand the desire to watch fuel levels.

 

[jetman]

@Adambomb7777
Does the vehicle idle and short trip a lot? That will put fuel in the oil.
if not?
Put some SeaFoam in your next tank or two of gas to clean injectors.

In a healthy engine that top tier HPL oil is good for 10k+ miles.

 

[Adambomb7777]

If the first sample is euro then it shows this has less calcium, phos, zinc. As for oil condition it looks like this was short run but I understand the desire to watch fuel levels.

The first sample was the Premium Plus PCMO 5w30

 

[Adambomb7777]

To answer some questions here:

This car is not running the factory turbo. Stock, these cars will dyno 160-180 at the wheels. Mine dynos 307 horsepower at the wheels. Right now I’m only limited by the factory fuel system. So yes, this car is very very tuned.

I know the injectors aren’t leaking because I would have other issues if I were. My AFR at wide open throttle is 11.5-11.7, no timing is being pulled, and the exhaust never smells like sunburned fuel even in a cold start. No smoke, nothing. There is a little soot on the tailpipe but nothing different from when the car was stock.

I did pull and reseal the injectors after that first sample was taken. I also had them serviced. No issues were found by the company I had do the service. I also replaced the evap purge valve and the charcoal canister. I only run top tier and I do not short trip the car. Monday through Friday it’s my daily and it does 70 miles a day round trip.

I know the fuel dilution is from the fuel I’m using and the fact I’ve almost doubled the factory HP. This car makes 26 pounds of boost at 3200 rpm and holds 22lbs to redline.

The main reason I was doing an analysis was just to recheck for dilution using the no VII oil.

 

[fantastic]

The first sample was the Premium Plus PCMO 5w30

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[jetman]

okay I get it now, it's tuned rich because of the amount of boost.

 

[subzerospeed]

To answer some questions here:

This car is not running the factory turbo. Stock, these cars will dyno 160-180 at the wheels. Mine dynos 307 horsepower at the wheels. Right now I’m only limited by the factory fuel system. So yes, this car is very very tuned.

I know the injectors aren’t leaking because I would have other issues if I were. My AFR at wide open throttle is 11.5-11.7, no timing is being pulled, and the exhaust never smells like sunburned fuel even in a cold start. No smoke, nothing. There is a little soot on the tailpipe but nothing different from when the car was stock.

I did pull and reseal the injectors after that first sample was taken. I also had them serviced. No issues were found by the company I had do the service. I also replaced the evap purge valve and the charcoal canister. I only run top tier and I do not short trip the car. Monday through Friday it’s my daily and it does 70 miles a day round trip.

I know the fuel dilution is from the fuel I’m using and the fact I’ve almost doubled the factory HP. This car makes 26 pounds of boost at 3200 rpm and holds 22lbs to redline.

The main reason I was doing an analysis was just to recheck for dilution using the no VII oil.

Its time to get %30 injectors and a hpfp my friend. Then onto e50

 

[Adambomb7777]

Its time to get %30 injectors and a hpfp my friend. Then onto e50

If I window mod the block I’m definitely doing that with a new engine. Right now she purrs like a kitten and makes enough power for what I want to do.

I’ve always wondered what it would be like with fuel mods though

 

[subzerospeed]

If I window mod the block I’m definitely doing that with a new engine. Right now she purrs like a kitten and makes enough power for what I want to do.

I’ve always wondered what it would be like with fuel mods though

It runs like a raped ape to 7k. Best way i can describe it.

 

[TiGeo]

Folks must have missed "big turbo" in the post title haha. Looks normal to me for a tuned large turbo engine w/r to fuel dilution....MOAR AIR MEANS MOAR FUEL!

 

[RDY4WAR]

I see no justification for changing this oil at this mileage. The fuel dilution is only 2.7% which isn't alarming to me since the KV100 is still in 30 grade range, the TBN is still >8, oxidation is practically non-existent, and no signs of wear metals increasing. I don't worry about fuel dilution until ~5% or when the oil is diluted out of grade.

Do you monitor oil temp? Ethanol's boiling point is 174°F so it should evaporate out if the oil temp is above that point. Usually street driven engines (or any that see full temp) on E85 don't have a major dilution issue due to that low boiling point. It's possible that your oil is only getting above that temp for short periods, not long enough to evaporate out the accumulation from warmup. This sample was also pulled in the dead of winter so fuel dilution is expected to be higher anyway. Regardless, I don't see a problem here. Keep on boosting.

Also, this makes me miss my Focus. I had an '07 with an FSW turbo (2860RS) that made 275 whp @ 12 psi and ran 12.8x @ 105-107 in the 1/4 mile. I miss that little car.

 

[Adambomb7777]

I see no justification for changing this oil at this mileage. The fuel dilution is only 2.7% which isn't alarming to me since the KV100 is still in 30 grade range, the TBN is still >8, oxidation is practically non-existent, and no signs of wear metals increasing. I don't worry about fuel dilution until ~5% or when the oil is diluted out of grade.

Do you monitor oil temp? Ethanol's boiling point is 174°F so it should evaporate out if the oil temp is above that point. Usually street driven engines (or any that see full temp) on E85 don't have a major dilution issue due to that low boiling point. It's possible that your oil is only getting above that temp for short periods, not long enough to evaporate out the accumulation from warmup. This sample was also pulled in the dead of winter so fuel dilution is expected to be higher anyway. Regardless, I don't see a problem here. Keep on boosting.

Also, this makes me miss my Focus. I had an '07 with an FSW turbo (2860RS) that made 275 whp @ 12 psi and ran 12.8x @ 105-107 in the 1/4 mile. I miss that little car.

That Focus was probably a hoot!

Really this was just more for my curiosity than anything. I really appreciate you’re reply as I know you are a long time respected member.

Question for you as I’m still learning things everyday around here. Many folks with these cars that run bigger turbos switch to a xW40. I don’t think there would really be any benefit as this car is never tracked (and doesnt have an oil temp gauge, and it’s never short tripped). Would switching to a 0w40 or 5w40 be beneficial at all? I do live in San Diego so it doesn’t really get to wintery around here. I’m thinking I can keep going with the no VII 5w30 maybe 5-6k mile oci, but maybe go longer with a 40?

Thank you for your input

 

[twX]

Ethanol's boiling point is 174°F so it should evaporate out if the oil temp is above that point. Usually street driven engines (or any that see full temp) on E85 don't have a major dilution issue due to that low boiling point. It's possible that your oil is only getting above that temp for short periods, not long enough to evaporate out the accumulation from warmup.

Ethanol will start evaporating below its boiling point, and and a lot of it escapes from the piston ring area directly into the combustion chamber, where the oil film temperature is up to 100°C higher than the sump temperature.

This is from a study that shows the dilution level dropping once the sump temperature hits 45-50°C.