IME, she's unlikely to go somewhere without him. If she did, that will create conflict/awkardness for her when she returns, or a fight before she leaves to go on this outing. It's usually a package deal.
How to deal with family member that drinks heavily
- Thread starter Joe1
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IME, she's unlikely to go somewhere without him. If she did, that will create conflict/awkardness for her when she returns, or a fight before she leaves to go on this outing. It's usually a package deal.
@Joe1
It's a bummer but we stopped going to family holiday gatherings many yrs ago because of the drinking and the resultant personality changes/problems.
Alcoholism and/or abusive drinking runs in both me and my wife's families.
Neither of us have consumed for 30+ yrs. We easily see the negative consequences.
It's a bummer but we stopped going to family holiday gatherings many yrs ago because of the drinking and the resultant personality changes/problems.
Alcoholism and/or abusive drinking runs in both me and my wife's families.
Neither of us have consumed for 30+ yrs. We easily see the negative consequences.
100%
He's been an alcoholic for 30 years or more and married to your sister for this entire time I gather. They have both made their choices; he to continue drinking and her to tolerate it. You will not be able to change either one I don't believe. You need to do what is best for you and your immediate family and do so without guilt. Let your sister know that you will always be there for her but you can not be in the presence of a raging drunk ever again. See your sister outside of her house, or have her, and her alone, to yours if she chooses to.
Only you are a better kicker than the alky, if not it may not end up well for the non-alky.
All you can control is your own actions.
Maybe you go and if he becomes problematic, you leave.
No drama, just go.
If anyone asks why, just say you don't wish to be around when he's acting that way.
You only control what you will and will not do. That way, you only control if you stay or go.
No need to announce why you are leaving. Just say it's time me/us to go, thank your hosts for inviting you and wish them a warm farewell.
If anyone asks, be as diplomatic as possible without running the guy down. It doesn't serve you well to run him down.
The behavior will only change when the guy finds himself paying the price for his actions.
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So your sister pretty much wrote off her own mother. You also suggest that your sister has lost many of her friends after being married to this guy. And this has been going on for 30 years.... That is a powerful message for where YOU stand with your sister!
I'd write both of them off - and tell them exactly why.
Scott
Call the cops when he leaves the next family event behind the wheel, should you choose to ever attend such an even again.
Myself, I would just avoid him and be clear with my sister why I was doing so. She deserves the truth from you, you deserve peace from him, but he deserves nothing except a jail cell.
If it were a room full of asbestos powder you wouldn't be asking our advice on whether to avoid it. The fact it's a person doesn't materially alter the situation nor the best approach.
I agree with a number of other guys on here… Tell your sister the rules going forward and then stay true to them. If that guy starts drinking …. Then you all leave. If you show up and he’s acting nasty and stupid…. You leave immediately.
I had to do that with my own father. .
My father was a bad, bad alcoholic for nearly 40 years… . Highly functioning one though. He got promoted 7 times at work and to his great credit he deserved all of those promotions. He took care of his family financially pretty well. He just got worse and worse with his drinking and his behavior got worse and worse over time. We had an intervention and he choose the bottle over his family.
The day in late summer 1995 when I went off on him nuclear style … Which he greatly deserved… Was a good thing in actuality. I think it shocked him too. To his credit he shut the blank up and didn’t say anything to argue with me at that point. And I did that several more times in the next 2 years. I never felt bad about that. Because at some point it want about father and son…. It was the fact it was also just man to man at that point.
There were time where my dad and I had good, good times together.. No doubt.,He was fun to fish with and fun to be around when he wasn’t acting nasty and stupid. I did enjoy being with him a lot when he was acting right.
I never put my hands on him but it came real, real real close to happening in July 4th 2002.. I wasn’t having him talk to me like I was a 13 year old kid..
I was a grown man and at that point I was bigger than him, at that moment meaner than him, and had had enough. I am very, very grateful that I didn’t not put my hands on him that day. But I came dangerously close to doing that. And part of it was just the fact that if he was taking to another grown man that way … They would have beaten his ass.. Which he would have deserved it.
To be fair to my father… He did help me in mid July of 1995. We started with an argument and then ended up really talking and then he apologized for a lot of things. Which did seriously help me a whole, whole, whole lot. He cried and so did I and we hugged each other.. He was not emotional like that hardly ever… I am quite the opposite of him in that way. And to be fair to my dad… I was a different type of kid and I think that factored in has well. Though over time I definitely believe that he came to respect and appreciate me for who I was.
My father was the first patient that I ever heard drastic changes in their respiratory lung sounds in just a 24 hour time frame. That was quite a shock to the system needless to say. One of the hardest things I have done was to basically be the hospice nurse to my own father… I was giving instructions when to give him certain medications. I rent my step mom telling me how my whole demeanor changed when I did that.. My dad passed away January 10th 2010.
I try to see my dad in the complete spectrum., A lot good and there was a lot wrong / bad with him. And yes the alcohol made up a vast majority of of what was bad about him. I try to see him in a complete way because there was so much to him. He did a lot of good things and he made a lot of mistakes too along the way, I try to be fair to his memory and who I know he really was.
And no… I don’t believe alcoholism is a disease… I’d suggest any reasonable person go to Children’s Hospital of the Kings Daughters… You’d see young children fighting real, real diseases that they had ZERO choice in having. Don’t tell me that a man or woman who willfully and knowingly chooses to drink or take drugs has a disease… Those terribly sick children at CHKD don’t get that blanking luxury.
Is alcoholism a disorder or mental condition ? Ok … I can believe that.
I had to do that with my own father. .
My father was a bad, bad alcoholic for nearly 40 years… . Highly functioning one though. He got promoted 7 times at work and to his great credit he deserved all of those promotions. He took care of his family financially pretty well. He just got worse and worse with his drinking and his behavior got worse and worse over time. We had an intervention and he choose the bottle over his family.
The day in late summer 1995 when I went off on him nuclear style … Which he greatly deserved… Was a good thing in actuality. I think it shocked him too. To his credit he shut the blank up and didn’t say anything to argue with me at that point. And I did that several more times in the next 2 years. I never felt bad about that. Because at some point it want about father and son…. It was the fact it was also just man to man at that point.
There were time where my dad and I had good, good times together.. No doubt.,He was fun to fish with and fun to be around when he wasn’t acting nasty and stupid. I did enjoy being with him a lot when he was acting right.
I never put my hands on him but it came real, real real close to happening in July 4th 2002.. I wasn’t having him talk to me like I was a 13 year old kid..
I was a grown man and at that point I was bigger than him, at that moment meaner than him, and had had enough. I am very, very grateful that I didn’t not put my hands on him that day. But I came dangerously close to doing that. And part of it was just the fact that if he was taking to another grown man that way … They would have beaten his ass.. Which he would have deserved it.
To be fair to my father… He did help me in mid July of 1995. We started with an argument and then ended up really talking and then he apologized for a lot of things. Which did seriously help me a whole, whole, whole lot. He cried and so did I and we hugged each other.. He was not emotional like that hardly ever… I am quite the opposite of him in that way. And to be fair to my dad… I was a different type of kid and I think that factored in has well. Though over time I definitely believe that he came to respect and appreciate me for who I was.
My father was the first patient that I ever heard drastic changes in their respiratory lung sounds in just a 24 hour time frame. That was quite a shock to the system needless to say. One of the hardest things I have done was to basically be the hospice nurse to my own father… I was giving instructions when to give him certain medications. I rent my step mom telling me how my whole demeanor changed when I did that.. My dad passed away January 10th 2010.
I try to see my dad in the complete spectrum., A lot good and there was a lot wrong / bad with him. And yes the alcohol made up a vast majority of of what was bad about him. I try to see him in a complete way because there was so much to him. He did a lot of good things and he made a lot of mistakes too along the way, I try to be fair to his memory and who I know he really was.
And no… I don’t believe alcoholism is a disease… I’d suggest any reasonable person go to Children’s Hospital of the Kings Daughters… You’d see young children fighting real, real diseases that they had ZERO choice in having. Don’t tell me that a man or woman who willfully and knowingly chooses to drink or take drugs has a disease… Those terribly sick children at CHKD don’t get that blanking luxury.
Is alcoholism a disorder or mental condition ? Ok … I can believe that.
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Yeah....the "disease" thing is an excuse in my opinion. Tired of hearing it.
I don't have any advice to add. I simply find this thread fascinating, somewhat sad and incredibly human all at once. I manage my life by keeping the good folks close and avoiding those who create trouble.
@Joe1 Family situations are complicated. Drunks and junkies have to hit bottom before anything can happen. Protect yourself and your loved ones first, but, after that, be present and try to see the bigger picture. Even from a safe distance, you can signal that you understand that someone has a problem. You don't have to be Mother Teresa.
That's all I know. Sorry for your troubles.
That's all I know. Sorry for your troubles.
As a kid, I had no idea why my mom in particular was so hellset against drinking. She hates the stuff with a passion. It wasn't until I was older that I saw what a demon it is in her family. I've had multiple cousins literally drink themselves to death before they were 50. One from liver failure and alcohol induced psychosis, another from pneumonia after collapsing after a months long bender. A third died in a drunken single vehicle motorcycle crash.
Ask you sister to go herself or accompany her to Al-Anon. It's for family members of alcoholics.
Support your sister from a safe distance. Hope he finds sobriety if he makes it long enough.
Four pages of mostly excellent advice.
Off track a bit, I am an endless thinker about all things and this Norman Maclean quote about the people I have associated with over the decades means more to me as I morph into old age. It might strike a chord with some participating here:
“Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.”
― Norman Maclean,
Off track a bit, I am an endless thinker about all things and this Norman Maclean quote about the people I have associated with over the decades means more to me as I morph into old age. It might strike a chord with some participating here:
“Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help those closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.”
― Norman Maclean,
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I'm sorry to hear about this. I have had plenty of this crap in my extended family on both sides. The best advice I have is pray for him, pray for your sister, and any kids involved.
My next advice is look out for yourself and if you have a family of your own, protect them. Alcoholics come in different types, some don't seem affected by it despite massive consumption of alcohol, some are loud obnoxious pigs when they drink, some do dumb things ("hold my beer and watch this"), and others are truly dangerous. Your sister is an adult and you can't force her to do anything no matter how reasonable or how right you are. She unfortunately seems to be an enabler and not open to feedback.
Why some women defend guys like this is a mystery? Sometimes they lack self esteem and he is the only one that makes them feel better because they talk them up knowing the right lines ( though they are also the ones who cut them down at other times, look up Narcissism), other cases it's they think they can change him (99.9% of the time he won't), he has money, she doesn't want to get a divorce, then there's the category I really, really don't like; he is threatening her (the dangerous example), etc.
The primary goal is protecting yourself (and your family if applicable). What I can tell you is yelling at the jerk isn't going to change him (my Great Grandmother had long arguments with her son in law who was one of the dangerous types and it didn't stop his drinking. Thankfully nothing catastrophic happened aside from the emotional scars his kids endured as did the family. He eventually died from cancer).
My advice is don't argue with him and to instead avoid being around him when he's drinking. If you are visiting for the holidays, when he gets nasty, pack up and leave. If they are visiting, practice either a limited a dry policy only as long as they are there for everyone including yourself. Outline with your sister these are the rules of the house for your house. If he cannot or will not follow them, he is not welcome. Boundaries are a useful tool, have them outlined/clearly defined, and enforce them strictly.
If you have kids and have had to witness this guy being a horse's rear end, and they are old enough to be taught lessons about the do's and don'ts of life, use that as an opportunity to teach them about the dangers of alcoholism, how addictive it can be, and how alcohol can affect certain people in a way where they become a different person who is hurtful and no one wants to be around, then consider my father's finishing point from every lecture "If you ever do this, I will be VERY disappointed in you!" Remind them of this each time they witness it until they tell you that they get it then back off. As a result, I don't drink. When I was in my mid 20s I tried a bit and quickly discovered it makes me grumpy (on the first drink), after that I knew who which family members I took after and pushed the glass away.
Don't try to be your sister's savior. She's an adult and she has to figure things out for herself. She probably already knows but won't openly admit to it. It stinks but it is what it is. Let her know that you love her and will always be there for her but you have to look out for yourself and your family.
Very important detail. Don't do anything to get yourself in legal trouble. Follow the law. If he's driving intoxicated, you need to look into what your legal responsibilities are in that situation.
My next advice is look out for yourself and if you have a family of your own, protect them. Alcoholics come in different types, some don't seem affected by it despite massive consumption of alcohol, some are loud obnoxious pigs when they drink, some do dumb things ("hold my beer and watch this"), and others are truly dangerous. Your sister is an adult and you can't force her to do anything no matter how reasonable or how right you are. She unfortunately seems to be an enabler and not open to feedback.
Why some women defend guys like this is a mystery? Sometimes they lack self esteem and he is the only one that makes them feel better because they talk them up knowing the right lines ( though they are also the ones who cut them down at other times, look up Narcissism), other cases it's they think they can change him (99.9% of the time he won't), he has money, she doesn't want to get a divorce, then there's the category I really, really don't like; he is threatening her (the dangerous example), etc.
The primary goal is protecting yourself (and your family if applicable). What I can tell you is yelling at the jerk isn't going to change him (my Great Grandmother had long arguments with her son in law who was one of the dangerous types and it didn't stop his drinking. Thankfully nothing catastrophic happened aside from the emotional scars his kids endured as did the family. He eventually died from cancer).
My advice is don't argue with him and to instead avoid being around him when he's drinking. If you are visiting for the holidays, when he gets nasty, pack up and leave. If they are visiting, practice either a limited a dry policy only as long as they are there for everyone including yourself. Outline with your sister these are the rules of the house for your house. If he cannot or will not follow them, he is not welcome. Boundaries are a useful tool, have them outlined/clearly defined, and enforce them strictly.
If you have kids and have had to witness this guy being a horse's rear end, and they are old enough to be taught lessons about the do's and don'ts of life, use that as an opportunity to teach them about the dangers of alcoholism, how addictive it can be, and how alcohol can affect certain people in a way where they become a different person who is hurtful and no one wants to be around, then consider my father's finishing point from every lecture "If you ever do this, I will be VERY disappointed in you!" Remind them of this each time they witness it until they tell you that they get it then back off. As a result, I don't drink. When I was in my mid 20s I tried a bit and quickly discovered it makes me grumpy (on the first drink), after that I knew who which family members I took after and pushed the glass away.
Don't try to be your sister's savior. She's an adult and she has to figure things out for herself. She probably already knows but won't openly admit to it. It stinks but it is what it is. Let her know that you love her and will always be there for her but you have to look out for yourself and your family.
Very important detail. Don't do anything to get yourself in legal trouble. Follow the law. If he's driving intoxicated, you need to look into what your legal responsibilities are in that situation.
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