house dilemma with the sellers

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Kestas

[rant] To go a little off topic, It really frosts me how some realtors can charge 4%, 5%, 6%, or sometimes even 7% to broker a sale. That's often 6% of a person's entire wealth. I know how hard I work for that kind of money. I just don't see realtors working that hard for that kind of money, especially Cutehumor's agent. We're basically paying 6% of our wealth just to get our houses listed into a computer database! [/rant]


That percentage IS negotiable, by the way...

 

[Vikas]

Look at the granite countertop, fancy sink, subzero freeze etc etc

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

+3 to the nice pad comment. Also, nice pad to my post count on this one with two relevant comments/corrections.

I was told today by two coworkers that are currently buying houses in short sales (ahem, $1.2M houses for around $400k - the market here is that bad) the grace period is 60 days. Close by 30 June and you still get the tax credit.

The second thing is that in most states, it's illegal for real estate agents to give legal advice. Your agent (who technically and legally is the seller's agent, since that's who pays him/her) has violated that principal by advising you not to seek legal advice. Maybe filing a lawsuit is the wrong thing to do, but you need a qualified lawyer who specializes in real estate to tell you that.

It remains to be seen that the divorcing couple is without assets. If your agent didn't know until a few days ago they were involved in a short sale, I find it hard to believe he/she has obtained a court order, obtained a complete list of assets and income, and conducted a forensic accounting since then. Just because the couple is getting rid of a house they are upside down on doesn't mean they are broke, as this could be a "strategic" short sale. I call shennagians!

 

[twentynine]

Wait just a minute!

First the sellers try to scam you out of an extra $500.

Then when you don't play their game, all of this other stuff comes up.

The sellers are water walkers--- always an angle, always searching for an edge, always having to come out on top. They thrive on [censored] and causing problems for everyone that ever does business with them.

Seriously, this is what I would do.

Tell the sellers that you are buying the house on April 30, what and how they pay the bank ain't your problem. That they are divorcing is beyond the scope of your business deal. That they owe the bank an additional $28k over the sale price, ain't your business. If the sale does not go through I'd file a lien on the house for the amount of money you can honestly prove that you lost, anyone can file a lien. Then I would sue the seller, the seller's agent and your agent. I'd get my pound of flesh out of some one.

And ain't no way I'd pay one more red cent for that house, than the agreed upon price.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

If I did not close, I would have lost my $5k earnest money to the sellers. they do not close, I get nothing but lose possibly 20k??


Isn't this supposed to be held in escrow?

I have to +1 twentynine. Bludgeon your way through.

 

[addyguy]

Agree with twentynine...there is a contract here.

Don't be a pushover or show any 'weakness' at this point. Don't agree with your agent that you won't sue - of course he's saying that, b/c he's exposed.

Make sure everyone knows you're becoming a 'caged bear' at this point, and are willing to fight. If you're agent realizes this, he might suddenly devolop some 'muscle' he didn't have today, and MAKE this sale happen.

 

[MNgopher]

Get a real estate lawyer involved now. You agent is covering themselves and trying to keep your business. A good agent who has done everything right and had nothing to hide would practically invite you get one involved to show you what a good job they did for you.

As was stated, start throwing some weight around - as there is a contract in place that governs everything at this point. The best person to interpret that contract and work to enforce it is a real estate attorney. If the seller and sellers agent understand you've brought some firepower into the fight, and this is all a shakedown, they'll likely sober up real quick...

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: meangreen01
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Nice pad!


I agree, it looks nice with many, many expensive looking furnishings.

Maybe the sellers would have been better off getting out from under their upside-down mortgage situation rather than fritter money away on pricy furnishings. I bet they had a couple new cars in the garage too.

I know people like this and don't understand their thinking. New house, new car, tons of nice stuff, vacations, etc. No money in the bank, a mailbox full of bills, and one paycheck away from serious financial ruin.


Which is likely a contributing factor in the sellers divorce action.

 

[Thermo1223]

Let me tell you a secret...

GET A LAWYER NOW!

I'd post my adventures in home purchasing but it would be quite the read.

We had 3 possible purchases before finding the 4th which is now our house. We lost about $2,000 which may not seems like a lot but when you are purchasing a $150,000 home it is. This was due to home inspections, appraisals, and my lost wages dealing with it all. My time however I can not get back.

We ended up buying a home under it's potential market value if prices rise again(which I think they will). It sold for 30% under other houses that were smaller in size only because it still looks like it was built in 1979 on the inside. It is about 25% larger though w/ a 2 car garage which is a rarity here.

 

[bigmike]

All of this nonsense is why I took my money and got a reputable real estate lawyer instead of an agent. I did my own legwork and the lawyer did the advice, calling, threatening, and paperwork. It appeared to me that everyone was scared of the guy, including the loan officers. I liked that. It made my life alot easier and I didn't owe him much money at the end of the day.

 

[twentynine]

Frankly in all honesty, you got to tell yourself if negotiations get to the point of threatening, you need to go find yourself another house to buy. Lawyer or not!

In this case if I read correctly, negotiation were completed, purchase price and conditions agreed upon, purchase agreement signed. Everything settled.

Then in the 11th hour the sellers come up with the koi pond bologna, when that didn't scare or run the buyer off, they pull the bolonga with the short sale. Does anyone but me smell a rat?

Now my understanding is the house is being sold for 28k less than what the sellers owe the bank. What the sellers owe the bank is the sellers and the banks business, if the bank wants to let the 28k go well so be it. The buyer has a signed contract.

I guess my question is-- why is it a short sale? The bank has had no input into this deal. They are owed the 28k, sellers need to cough it up.

Divorce or not. One thing I can tell you, is how much money I owe to who. My wife handles all the bill paying, but I can tell you with in $100 how much in total we owe. Always have and always will. Currently it is real easy to figure, we owe ZERO! But even when we owed a mortgage, bank cards, car loans, school tuition, my wife knew how much money I had in my pocket, I knew how much money was in my wife's purse, how much money in savings, how much in checking and most of all total debt--- everyday.

Now the seller is trying to make the buyer believe that they just happened to wake up on a Monday morning and realise that they owe 28k more on the house than they knew about. Bologna!!!!!

They are blowing smoke, running a scam to get more money or get the buyer to back out so they can get the surity money.

Like I said earlier they are water walkers, always a load of you know what to deal with, always an excuse.

Get an attorney sue the pants off of everyone envolved. Get what ever money you can legitamately prove that you lost.

 

[dishdude]

It sounds like these people are broke, and without bringing $28k to closing (which is sounds like they don't have) they will not be able to complete the sale. The selling agent should have known what they owed on the house from the day it was listed - something is wrong here.

I really feel for you...

 

[Cutehumor]

***Update**

The lawyer at the title company wrote a letter on my behalf to the sellers saying that if they don't close on 4/30 they are defaulting on our contract. I can sue for "specific performance" and for "damages" the letter says.

Well, anyway, I got a call from my agent today. he said the wife sent the husband the letter from the lawyer. He called their seller agent immediately and said that he will try to get a "??? note" to pay the 28k dollars. But my agent said the seller agent is sending a form over for me to sign about the short sale!! He said he will read it first before sending it to me. He said he didn't want me signing anything without him reading it first. I bet it has language in there releasing him from this contract. My agent said it should be a form saying what we will offer for the house (at a reduced price) for losing the home buyer credit and higher interest rate and the home inspection/home appraisal like the points mentioned earlier in the thread.

My agent kept saying that the seller said that he wants to close on this house, they just can't. The sellers even told my agent to tell me since I have nowhere to go, I can move in that house on 4/30

But when I told my agent that I wanted to get a consultation with a lawyer. he told me to talk to the lawyer who wrote the letter on my behalf. See, he referred me to this guy to write the letter since it was "free". I'm not trusting my agent now since he told me that I can live in that house on 4/30. what so the bank can kick us out or I pay top dollar to stay in that house??? I'm thinking I need an independent attorney to look this over.

oh, by the way, the seller said if I pursue legal action against them, they will file bankruptcy, and I will get nothing.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

You nailed it.

#1. Although the title company lawyer should give you proper advice, get your own.

#2. Have your own lawyer review any documents before you sign.

I suspect the form is to acknowledge you were informed it was a short sale (which you weren't in any kind of timely manner), to eliminate liability on the listing agent. If it is, it pretty much guarantees the listing agent and broker will be liable for any damages you suffer.

Personally, if the sellers threatened me with bankruptcy, I'd pursue legal action just to see if they were really broke, and to force them into it. But then again I'm considered "highly retalitory".

 

[Virtuoso]

I don't think you'd loose your ernest money if they don't close, I think you do if you don't. ??

 

[LS2JSTS]

Do not take possesion of that house before a legal mortgage is put on it in your name, with a lein free title insurance policy in place. Moving into the house before the closing takes place, muddies the water and I would never do it considering the other shady actions of those involved up to this point.

Me and others have urged you to consult your own attorney. I see you are leaning in that direction now. Do not trust the title insurance attorneys advice with regard to the document they want you to sign. Do not sign that document till you have had your own independent attorney review ALL the contracts and addendums with this deal.

It doesnt matter one wit if the sellers have no cash at all. The person with the most liability here are the licensed agents, their brokers and the licensed loan officer. All of them have E@O insurance for such "screw ups"....and trust me, that listing agent is losing sleep over this if he has a brain in his head. He has huge liability here....I wouldnt sign ANYTHING drafted by that agent in regard to the short sale.

 

[MNgopher]

Agree with LS2JSTS. While the title insurance agency sort of has your interest in mind, they are really looking out for what is best for the title insurance company only. Having your own representation eliminates that potential bias that may (or may not) guide them to a solution or outcome.

At this point, I'd have an attorney review ANY paperwork coming from either agent. It would be too easy for them to try and slide something through that takes them off the hook. They need to keep squirming on it!

 

[hr1940]

Get your own lawyer and do not trust any of them. The Realtor is your employee and if he/she does not do their job then they deserve to be sued. Do not back down. I know that you are losing a lot of money but you do not know what else they are hiding. If the guy that cleaned the fish pond puts a lien on the house then you are really in trouble. An appliance repairman that we knew had to put a lien on a house. The house could not be sold until he was satisfied and it cost 10 times more than the original bill.

Helen

 

[Cutehumor]

I talked to my wife. she wants the house badly even in a short sale. I want the house, but not under these terms. I told her about getting our own lawyer, but she "won't be a part of it if we sue our agent because he's done nothing wrong" my agent sent me an affadavit of "arm's length" to be a buyer of this short sale. I do not intend to sign it.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
I talked to my wife. she wants the house badly even in a short sale. I want the house, but not under these terms. I told her about getting our own lawyer, but she "won't be a part of it if we sue our agent because he's done nothing wrong" my agent sent me an affadavit of "arm's length" to be a buyer of this short sale. I do not intend to sign it.


Your agent HAS done something wrong. He did not do the proper research to make sure you were not in this position right before closing.

How did your agent protect you against this scenario? Your agent HAS done something wrong. Is it worth a law suit? I'm not sure.

If you lose money, then is it enough to seek a remedy? There is probably some sort of arbitration clause if you have a contract with the agent acting as a buyers agent.

Do the sellers have assets such as a 401(k) or other they can borrow against to prevent this from being a short sale?

Each of them take $14K out of a 401(k) and make up the difference...