Anything is easier when you don't have a choice.

H

HonorAndHonesty

Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
836
Location
United States
We have lived in our home for over 15 years, it is an amazing property on over 4 acres. It is a lot of maintenance as imagined. We have enjoyed it and still do, however the amount of work it takes is getting old. My wife's health and my own is not as good as it was when were in our 20s when we bought this place. I also find a lot less time to dedicate to this place with the busy schedule of kids activities ect.... In mid 2021 we were thinking about buying a house on a more manageable property though we were not finding anything just right.

Fast forward to late 2021, our neighbor on one side retired, he has always been reclusive and odd, he has lived here longer than we have. He for whatever reason refuses to get garbage service and burns his garbage, toxic plastic and all. He is the only one near us that does. Everyone else pays 23 a month for garbage service. It is illegal here to burn garbage but enforcement is handled on the state level.

At one point the nasty smoke was getting into my house, so I called the fire department and they put it out. The local volunteer fire department seems sympathetic to people burning illegal stuff, its the whole the government isn't going to tell me what to do even if they have a point attitude I believe.

Since this point the man has harassed me and now its escalated to my wife, he has ended up with a protection order filed on him by my wife with me added on it. We go to court Soon. Now he in turn filed a protection order on me claiming harassment for the times I have called the fire department on his burning and reported him to the state agency that handles such matters. The problem I am having is even though he was burning illegally nothing on any official paperwork says so. He of course is claiming he was only burning clean paper which is a lie but I have no proof.

Even though he filed his protective order after we filed ours, somehow he got a hearing scheduled first. I have a lawyer though he was unavailable to go the hearing against me because we only had 4 days notice. I was supposed to ask for a continuance to the same time as our hearing and I screwed it up, both trying to ask for the continuance too soon while in court then too late. I have never been to court and it showed. The Judge put the matter under advisory until we have our hearing against him, our lawyer will be there for that. I feel the Judge was siding with him, but yelled at him as well as me because neither of us knew what we were doing while submitting evidence or providing testimony. He lied while giving his testimony and it seems that really doesn't matter.

Now I am possibly going to have a protective order got thru on me from him. And likely we will have one on him as well.

Frankly I am tired of it, its not even enjoyable to go outside anymore due to his harassment, like throwing smoke bombs, lighting plastic on fire and letting the smell come over here but only for a short enough time that if I called the fire dept. the complaint would be unfounded by the time they got here (This happened once, and they acted like I called to harass him and acted like I was crazy. They didn't believe my version of events.) There have been police that have responded that do believe our version of events and as a result my neighbor has a harassment charge that has been submitted to the prosecutor but I doubt it will be prosecuted.

I am worried if I got a protective order filed on me that he easily could make up a story and if the police officer believed him, I would end up with criminal charged for violating a protective order. All of this because he was violating the law and became enraged when he was reported.

I am also worried his harassment will escalate. It honestly wouldn't surprise me a bit if it did.

I have never had as much as a parking ticket! The thought of me facing these possibilities is sickening.

I feel maybe it's just best to move at this point. Yes, we would be losing our dream property, but it's becoming impractical anyway, I have no desire, time or energy to deal with such a toxic person such as our neighbor. I feel like he has defeated us and will get what he wants which is us to move. But we were considering moving anyway.

What would you do? Any words of advice? Any stories to make me feel better?
 
It's difficult to offer advice on a matter like this without knowing what your personality is. Having said that, if it were me, it would be a cold day in h e hockey sticks before I would relocate because of a looney-tunes next door. I'm much more inclined to make his life as miserable as I possibly can, as he has it coming, according to your version of the story. He seems to be able to get by with a lot, so the same goes for you. First thing I would do is get some outdoor cameras to record his every move, and when the burning and harassment and violation of the protective order takes place, pepper the police department with solid evidence. The more you call them to your house for legitimate legal reasons, the more irritated they will be with him. It's hard for him to deny what appears in video, and a few times of being made out to be a liar to the police will put you in a position of power. If you really do want to move because of the property, by all means, do so, but if you're not ready yet, don't let a psycho force your hand.
 
TCL said:
Offer to pay the 23 dollars a month for his garbage service.
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Very good point. I actually offered for him to throw away his garbage in our can free of charge and he wouldn't do that. I wonder if I paid for the service and he had his own can and everything if he would use it. I would pay it in a split second if it would diffuse the situation.

I may mention this to my lawyer. My lawyer does know I offered the neighbor to use my garbage can.

The thing about the neighbor is in 17 years we never spoke to him, he would always run away when we tried to talk so we just left it alone.

I only spoke to him one time when he spray painted my fence posts purple to indicate no trespassing. we spoke for about a minute and he wasn't very pleasant.

I guess I would have to offer the proposal thru the attorney or court? I could really see this guys still burning illegally just enough to mess with us, he really seems to dislike us and always had. The old owner of the house talked to him 2 times in 20 years if that tells you anything.

He completely denies burning anything since 2009 or so, we all know you can tell if its just paper burning or plastic burning and he is obviously burning plastic, nylon ect...
 
Jack_Kieran said:
Probably wouldn't work. Neighbor sounds like classic ODPD (Oppositional-Defiant Personality Disorder).
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This is my thought, we had actually offered him to use our garbage can. I would gladly pay 23 a month to make everything ok.

I also believe he is jealous of me is I have a job that many other blue collar workers envy. I also have what many consider to be a nice house and properrty and I did it at the age of 26. No one helped me, my wife and I accomplished it thru hard work and sacrifice. ( the house was 165k in 07, not like its that expensive of a house but back then it was considered midlevel price for the area back then)
 
Jack_Kieran said:
Probably wouldn't work. Neighbor sounds like classic ODPD (Oppositional-Defiant Personality Disorder).
Click to expand...
I will say he got a speeding ticket and posted a picture of it on his fake facebook account, he drew tic tac toe squares on it and played tic tac toe on it crossing out most of the identifying information, it was very strange for an almost 70 year old man to do that.
 
WylieCoyote said:
First thing I would do is get some outdoor cameras to record his every move, and when the burning and harassment and violation of the protective order takes place, pepper the police department with solid evidence. The more you call them to your house for legitimate legal reasons, the more irritated they will be with him. It's hard for him to deny what appears in video, and a few times of being made out to be a liar to the police will put you in a position of power
Click to expand...
It would be really hard to capture everything on video, we both have 4 acre properties and you can't see a lot of his from our property.
 
As I read the OP, my first thought was: Is it legal in your area to set up surveillance cameras that happen to overshoot the property line and capture his burn pit? That, combined with a sensor which detects one or more gases exclusive to burning plastic (as opposed to paper or wood) might help capture the short-lived evidence that's gone by the time the fire department shows up. Present that to the state agency responsible for enforcing burning regulations, sue them for inaction if it comes down to it, etc, etc.

Then I thought: Maybe that's a good question for a lawyer. You mention you have one. What do they suggest?
 
fsdork said:
As I read the OP, my first thought was: Is it legal in your area to set up surveillance cameras that happen to overshoot the property line and capture his burn pit? That, combined with a sensor which detects one or more gases exclusive to burning plastic (as opposed to paper or wood) might help capture the short-lived evidence that's gone by the time the fire department shows up. Present that to the state agency responsible for enforcing burning regulations, sue them for inaction if it comes down to it, etc, etc.

Then I thought: Maybe that's a good question for a lawyer. You mention you have one. What do they suggest?
Click to expand...
IDK if its legal here to video a neighbor's property, I believe it is, the problem is much of his property is not visible from mine. The state agency responsible generally works with the for departments to get reports that will hold up to charge offenders. Unfortunately our local VFD seems get triggered when you even mention said state agency and seem to be sympathetic to the illegal burners. Most of them are really redneck good 'ol boys and while we can appreciate their volunteer work, I must say if you can't do the job you volunteer for competently because of beliefs or whatever, then don't do it.

Its very frustrating.
 
Video has been mentioned already.

If he claims he hasn't burned anything since 2009...where is all the garbage? What did he do with it? Bring this up to your lawyer/in court for him to prove what he has done with what should be a VERY large amount of garbage by this time.

Fly a drone over his burn area?😉
 
if he appears mentally unbalanced check with your local ADRC ,ask to have his living conditions ,state of mind investigated, there are channels within your local gov. that can do this for his wellness,,also zonings laws/bylaws for property upkeep
 
Dealing with something similar with my neighbor…. Sunday she walked into my garage, scaring the heck out of me, and demanded to know why I “wait till the dandelions are puffballs before mowing them because ‘we’ (her and her 2 other boomer *** neighbors) pay a lot of money to have our yards sprayed for dandelions.” Meanwhile the guy directly across from me mows his hill once a month and has just as many dandelions.

I cut the grass once a week on the weekends, always have. Never has it been an unruly mess. We’re out in the country and no HOA. We don’t spray chemicals on our yard because our children play in the yard and my wife likes making dandelion tea and jam. It’s also 2 acres, I’ve got better things to spend my money on than a magazine perfect yard. I did put up cameras, but they only record my property and they record 24/7 in case she decides to go full crazy.

I told my wife, who wants to move away from her, just ignore her. Legally she can’t do anything, we’ve got video proof against she tries to claim, let her and the other boomers seethe angrily. That or I’ll just start whipping donuts in my truck in the yard and make it real friggin white trash real quick out of pure spite 🤷🏻‍♂️

Not as bad as making noxious smoke, but just as friggin obnoxious.
 
Jack_Kieran said:
Probably wouldn't work. Neighbor sounds like classic ODPD (Oppositional-Defiant Personality Disorder).
Click to expand...
Exactly. You wont get anywhere with this kind of person, they thrive on the confrontation. My first neighbor was like this, to everyone and anyone within 10 houses of her. Go along with everything she says or does, and all was fine, but the second you disagreed with her she turned into an absolute nut. This was a nice, normal neighborhood (no HOA), she had trash everywhere in back and on the porch, derelict cars in the driveway and parked in the back yard (which bordered a woods), house in shambles, a big chicken coup and chickens running all over the place, you could hear her screaming at the kids all the time, etc. Her husband, a quiet alcoholic but the nicest guy in the world, got fed up and moved out and lived in a tent in the large woods behind the house. He would sneak in when she wasnt home and take food and whatever. He died a few years later, barely in his 40's. She went on picking fights with every neighbor that even looked at her wrong. I know one neighbor called child protective services on her, another called the township and complained about the junk on the lawn... This went on for several years, until..... at the risk of sounding like a horrible person here... she died. Halleluiah, prayers answered. Her kids, all teens, took over the house, cleaned up all the garbage everywhere, got rid of the junk cars, painted and fixed up the house, and let it sit vacant for several years before finally selling it. They all turned out completely normal, somehow. Still see them every now and then, they have nothing good to say about her and never have.

I feel for the OP, there is no easy way to deal with these kind of neighbors. Even if you win a minor battle here or there, using the courts of the police or whatever... they'll be back with some other way to stir the pot. They're mental and they really cant help it. its hard enough in the suburbs, but being out in the country a bit with unsympathetic police and not many witnesses, you're in for a battle.
 
Out of spite, I'd burn 'things' right back at him, which unfortunately needs the proper wind direction, plant a tree/giant bush that looks like male parts, point big speakers at his house and play unpleasant music....etc, although neither of these would work in an area with large distances between houses nor would I want to catch other neighbors in the middle.

There are personal air monitoring stations that can test for this stuff but and I'm not sure how well that will go as evidence if you don't have a lawyer that deals with this specifically. I'd stick the air monitoring at the edge of your property on his side and a camera mounted to a pole pointed towards his property. EPA would have a ball if this was a commercial property.
 
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I have a neighbor somewhat like that, but not as extreme. Where we live if activity is detrimental to the environment you can contact the state Dept. of Environmental Conservation and they will sometimes take care of things. They have Encon police with full authority to arrest, etc. I know of people pulled over for traffic violations by the Encon police! They are essentially state police for environmental issues. But, in general, with a terrible neighbor I think it is best to simply ignore them. They want to get a rise out of you, and the single best way to fight that is to pretend they don't exist. I understand your case has already gone way beyond that.
 
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