Honda engine Vs Nissan

CT8

Messages
15,392
Location
Idaho
Originally Posted by UncleDave
According to Wiki- Wards Nissan/ Renault has placed 2 more "best engines" than Honda in their 10 best engines list. [Linked Image] UD
Wards?
 
Messages
4,535
Location
Ca.
Originally Posted by Ben99GT
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by Ben99GT
Originally Posted by JustN89
Honda V6s are smooth, as eluded to previously, largely thanks to having a timing belt.
There is no way you can detect an NVH difference between a timing belt and a timing chain from behind the wheel. Any perceived difference in smoothness (assuming both are 60 deg V6s) will boil down to method of engine damping (active vs passive motor mounts, perhaps motor mount material and mounting points) and sound deadening.
Gonna agree to disagree on that - In that NVH is noise vibration and harshness, many can hear, there exists a clear noise diff between the two actuation methods. sometimes a pronounced diff - take a small block chevy and listen to the diff between a pete jackson gear drive and a jesel belt drive, even the "quiet" one. Feeling it - perhaps, perhaps not.
Gear drive? LOL Gear drives make noise because they are straight cut gears. Take an SBC with a timing chain and a Jesel belt drive and there is virtually no noise difference. Built both, heard both. ree to disagree. You will not feel or hear any timing chain noise from behind the wheel unless there is a problem. A normally operating timing chain is not noisy. Bottom line, any perceived smoothness of a Honda engine from inside of the car has nothing to do with it being a belt or chain that drives the cams.
There are several types of gear drives, straight and helical cut (helical cut being the "quiet" one I mentioned above) A SBC with its short timing chain and path is the quietest example - engines like the ford 5.0 coyote with multiple feet of chains, sprockets, tensioners and guides all make more noise than a belt doing the same job. Still agree to disagree. UD
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,535
Location
Ca.
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by UncleDave
According to Wiki- Wards Nissan/ Renault has placed 2 more "best engines" than Honda in their 10 best engines list. [Linked Image] UD
Wards?
Yes, ....well wiki's synopsis of wards in any case. UD
 
Messages
1,634
Location
Ocala, Florida
I'd take a Honda over a garbage Nissan any day of the week. Nissan used to build a quality vehicle but since the merge with Renault, they are complete junk! I've personally owned two new Nissans and neither one made it to 50k miles without engine issues and multiple dealer trips. Of course, this was the 4 cylinders, not the VQ engines. I bought a 2012 Versa brand new and a 2013 Sentra brand new. Both were utter garbage, lacked power, refinement and were just cheap. I owned many nissans in the past as did my parents and we loved them (1980-1990's era) since living here in Florida, I've witnessed literally two Newer Nissans blow up right in front of me on the road! One left a smoke cloud so large I had to stop in the middle of the road!
 
Messages
4,379
Location
MS
Originally Posted by UncleDave
There are several types of gear drives, straight and helical cut (helical cut being the "quiet" one I mentioned above) A SBC with its short timing chain and path is the quietest example - engines like the ford 5.0 coyote with multiple feet of chains, sprockets, tensioners and guides all make more noise than a belt doing the same job. Still agree to disagree. UD
I build 4V Modulars/Coyotes and spec/degree cams for them regularly. [Linked Image] Timing chain noise is virtually non-existent; again, definitely nothing that can be heard or felt from behind the wheel unless there is problem. Every gear drive I have ever seen is straight-cut. The Pete Jackson "quiet" gear driver is still straight cut, here is a photo of part number PJJ-350-91C. [Linked Image]
 
Last edited:
Messages
3,719
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Honda engines overall are better engineered than Nissan.
Hmmmmm🤔 The Nissan 4.0L V6 is and maybe one of the best engines made. It's for sure the best V6 right now from a durability and reliability stand point.
100% opinion and completely subjective. I remember reading about at least one big problem that crops up with these when you get some mileage on them, that doesn't happen with the Toyota 4.0 V6 (like what I have in my Tacoma).
 
Messages
4,535
Location
Ca.
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Honda engines overall are better engineered than Nissan.
Hmmmmm🤔 The Nissan 4.0L V6 is and maybe one of the best engines made. It's for sure the best V6 right now from a durability and reliability stand point.
100% opinion and completely subjective. I remember reading about at least one big problem that crops up with these when you get some mileage on them, that doesn't happen with the Toyota 4.0 V6 (like what I have in my Tacoma).
It's not opinion if you count Wards as an authority on the matter - which the auto industry does. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20041208005679/en/Nissan-VQ-Engine-Wards-10-Engines-List That said its fairer to say the "VQ series 6" is one of the best v6's ever made and was on the 10 best engines list for something like 11 years. Curious what problem you may be referring to? UD
 
Messages
4,535
Location
Ca.
On nylon slippers They aren so smooth they dont wear out. There is contact being made. A steel chain against a (or multiple) nylon block is not quieter than a rubber belt on a tension roller, and belts dont transfer harmonics like a chain, or gear. I could have just as easily used my VK 56 as an example vs the coyote- The Nissan Hyvo type chains a really quiet as well, but still noisier than the belt. NVH builds with every contact point and surface. Maybe it was the wood performance drive that was beveled. or helical cut - I've used both pete jackson types and even the quiet one is noisy. Point being the belt has less NVH than pretty much any other type of actuation but possibly air I build (assemble I dont do machine work) engines as well and used the belt and chains as well as gear drives (haven't used in ages since racing days, and we moved to belts anyway) Heres my 500HP small block and my 725HP big block. I used both a jesel and a double roller in the SBC IF one put he two side by side a cam/ chain/ slipper block actuation , vs a rubber belt with a tensioner and spun them to 6000 RPM with an electric motor which do you think would have more vibration, or transmit more to block? UD [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,379
Location
MS
Originally Posted by UncleDave
On nylon slippers They aren so smooth they dont wear out. There is contact being made. A steel chain against a (or multiple) nylon block is not quieter than a rubber belt on a tension roller, and belts dont transfer harmonics like a chain, or gear. I could have just as easily used my VK 56 as an example vs the coyote- The Nissan Hyvo type chains a really quiet as well, but still noisier than the belt. NVH builds with every contact point and surface.
When it takes a raised hood and a stethoscope to really hear the NVH emitted by a normally operating timing chain, chain vs belt just isn't a notable factor in perceived NVH from behind the wheel. In fact, most fuel injectors are a larger contributor to NVH than a normally operating timing chain. Method of engine damping and sound insulation are much larger contributors, the primary contributors. When one says Honda's are "smooth running", ascribing that characteristic to a timing belt is simply wrong. Timing chain vs belt is a minor, almost imperceptible contributing factor to perceived NVH.
 
Last edited:
Messages
3,719
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Honda engines overall are better engineered than Nissan.
Hmmmmm🤔 The Nissan 4.0L V6 is and maybe one of the best engines made. It's for sure the best V6 right now from a durability and reliability stand point.
100% opinion and completely subjective. I remember reading about at least one big problem that crops up with these when you get some mileage on them, that doesn't happen with the Toyota 4.0 V6 (like what I have in my Tacoma).
It's not opinion if you count Wards as an authority on the matter - which the auto industry does. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20041208005679/en/Nissan-VQ-Engine-Wards-10-Engines-List That said its fairer to say the "VQ series 6" is one of the best v6's ever made and was on the 10 best engines list for something like 11 years. Curious what problem you may be referring to? UD
I certainly don't dispute that it's a good engine. I was referring to the claim he made that the Nissan 4.0 is "for sure the best V6 from a durability and reliability standpoint". I don't remember, exactly, but I remember reading about some problem that crops up with them. I'd have to do a search.
 
Messages
11,633
Location
Illinois
Best Engine by Wards doesn't mean it will be a durable engine. It just means it's interesting, ground breaking, or best from the perspective to cutting edge technology. It may be displacement, or efficiency or something like that. But I don't think durability has any consideration in the matter. Especially since the engines are often so new, there is no way to determine durability.
 
Messages
1,040
Location
New York
Originally Posted by DavidJones
Yeah, but a Toyota will outlive them both.
There are a lot of Toyota engines that have had consumption and sludging issues. My nephew had a Celica that ate 10W-40 like it was olive oil (ironically he might have been better off with a 0W-20). And there there was the "stealth recall" on Camrys in the late 90's-early 2000's... That being said, I like what Toyota is doing with their D-4S injection engines...
 
Messages
1,040
Location
New York
I'm sure Nissan makes some good stuff. But as the owner whose first new car was a victim of an intake-manifold eating 2.5L Nissan SpecV, I can't really say much good about Nissan...
 
Messages
20
Location
Midwest
I think you can look at large, fleet taxis and see what they use to determine long life. Here in Chicago, the majority of taxis have switched from the old Ford Crown Vic's with bulletproof engines to Toyota Camry's. I see some Nissan Altima's also. I also think that the old "box style" Nissan Sentra's lasted a long time. I see a guy still driving one around here delivering pizzas. Lord only knows how many miles it has on it.
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,535
Location
Ca.
Originally Posted by geekster
I think it's like most things. Pick the best product for your needs. For me, I opted for the 4.0l VQ in the Nissan. I chose it for it's power, simplicity, and reliability.
Did you choose the engine or the vehicle? I choose the right vehicle for my needs/ wants which most often gives me no choice on the powertrain. My Maxima, G35 coupe, and Titan had no engine choices. Neither did my Ridgeline, or Rx400H. My Honda and Lexus Toyota 6's are smoother than my Nissan V6 products. Better from an NVH standpoint, worse from a maintenance standpoint. UD
 
Messages
4,379
Location
MS
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Neither did my Ridgeline, or Rx400H. My Honda and Lexus Toyota 6's are smoother than my Nissan V6 products. Better from an NVH standpoint, worse from a maintenance standpoint.
The RX400H used the 3MZ-FE (3.3L), did it not? Interestingly enough, that engine uses helical cut gears to drive the intake cams. I had a Toyota 5VZ-FE 3.4 at one point and you could definitely hear the noise produced by the secondary [gear] cam drive.
 
Messages
4,535
Location
Ca.
Originally Posted by Ben99GT
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Neither did my Ridgeline, or Rx400H. My Honda and Lexus Toyota 6's are smoother than my Nissan V6 products. Better from an NVH standpoint, worse from a maintenance standpoint.
The RX400H used the 3MZ-FE (3.3L), did it not? Interestingly enough, that engine uses helical cut gears to drive the intake cams. I had a Toyota 5VZ-FE 3.4 at one point and you could definitely hear the noise produced by the secondary [gear] cam drive.
Pretty close - it uses a detuned version of the 3MZFE, Correct- it uses helical cut gears to drive the secondary bank of cams so one could say its a hybrid there as well. Id say its harsher than my J35, but smoother than my Vq's. It really hard to compare NVH with it as the CVT doenst allow me to see what exactly RPM Im turning and always try to lower RPM where eI could hold my other vehicles in specific gears and go back to back. In the upper RPM towing a boat ranges is where I really notice the Hondas NVH being superior, but they pay particle attention to NVH, and I agree the belt is only a part of the picture, but I think you and I disagree on the %. In a passenger auto turning low RPM it isnt as noticeable (even more hard at idle where you use a stethoscope to detect anomalies) as a vehicle sustaining 3-4 K for long periods of time.
 
Last edited:
UD, I chose the vehicle. My needs were a truck that could fit in my garage. Prior to the Frontier I had the GMC Canyon. It was in the shop non stop for the transmission. At the time the only other options for small/mid size trucks were the Taco or Frontier. I was looking at CPO used ones. The cost of the Taco used was crazy. Almost no point in buying it used and especially CPO. I got my Frontier for considerably less. I get that it's not as "nice" as the Taco. Yes, it's dated and mechanically old school. But, it fit my needs. I also drive very little. I've had this truck for right at 27 months and I've put 14k on the odo. The VQ is definitely rougher at idle than the Canyon or the Taco. It doesn't bother me. Again, I'm not in my truck for very long amounts of time. I just needed something reliable and a truck bed for chores and projects with the occasional utility trailer.
 
Top