Best 0w20 to resist fuel dilution in Honda 1.5 TGDI engine? And use in Honda J35 V6s?

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More viscosity doesn't alleviate fuel dilution, or impact the rate at which it occurs, it just gives you more buffer to start with.
The language in Manteno was a little stronger, along the lines that "increasing viscosity does little or nothing to alleviate fuel dilution...the key is the add pack." [sic]

It may be that, as with oxidative thickening, there is something chemically going on vs mere viscosity changes.

Thoughts of the professors ?
 
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It's an extremely efficient engine designed to have as little friction as possible and because it's small displacement, it's already thermally disadvantaged. So, it takes a very long time to get up to temperature, and, as @l15be noted, has a hard time even staying there. So, it stays in startup-up enrichment longer and doesn't get hot enough to boil off the fuel. Combustion is also less complete in engines that aren't up to operating temperature, and it's using DI, which uses enrichment to mitigate knock as well. So, you put all of that together and you have a perfect storm for fuel dilution, particularly if the engine is short-tripped, or operated in cold climates, or particularly if you are doing both. That was the foundation for the class-action lawsuit.
Thank you. Weren't there a huge variety of conditions in China ?

I remember High Moly Mazda 0W20 being called for with early SkyActiv engines partially because it was desired to get the engine up to operating temperature quickly.

EPA requirements were in play.
 

wlk

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I’m going to have to say no! I live 30 miles outside of New Orleans, the past mornings have been 50 degrees, I get in my car start it put seatbelt on and go. I have a 2018 accord touring 1.5t. I leave the HVAC off until it’s up to temp. In 50 degrees it takes about 5 miles or more to come up to 180 degrees. So I am going to tell you not a shot yours in 0 degree weather is warmed up in 5 mins. These engines are like diesels in cold weather where they take forever to come up to temp especially if it is sitting with no load. I also use Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 so it will come up to temp faster than one using the 20 weight.
Well that is the problem you are driving it cold, which causes the cold air flow to keep the radiator cold. We had zero problems with 2018 Civic 1.5t defrosting the windows sitting in the driveway I'm the winter. If it was closer to 0°f it may take a few more minutes beyond five but if it was in the teens it warms up in about 5min. I am not saying it is up to full operating temp at 180°, but it has heat and windows are defrosted. Same for my old Chevy too, I hop in it and drive and I freeze bc it won't warm up. I let it idle in the driveway for 5ish minutes and it gets warm.
 
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Thank you. Weren't there a huge variety of conditions in China ?

I remember High Moly Mazda 0W20 being called for with early SkyActiv engines partially because it was desired to get the engine up to operating temperature quickly.

EPA requirements were in play.


I haven’t heard that one before. Mazda uses a lot of tricks to get their engines heated up quicker but the oil?
 

OVERKILL

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The language in Manteno was a little stronger, along the lines that "increasing viscosity does little or nothing to alleviate fuel dilution...the key is the add pack." [sic]

It may be that, as with oxidative thickening, there is something chemically going on vs mere viscosity changes.

Thoughts of the professors ?
They are right though, the viscosity itself does not impact fuel dilution; does not prevent it from happening. All it does is increase the buffer; buy you more time before dilution brings the viscosity down to an unsafe level.

On the other hand, the additive package can be crafted to be more effective in the presence of fuel and low viscosity; can be improved to be more robust and provide more protection under mixed and boundary regimes. Of course that same chemistry can be applied broadly and result in more effective lubricants overall, follow?
 

OVERKILL

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Thank you. Weren't there a huge variety of conditions in China ?

I remember High Moly Mazda 0W20 being called for with early SkyActiv engines partially because it was desired to get the engine up to operating temperature quickly.

EPA requirements were in play.
China is huge, so I'm sure there were, but the general theme was that the most impacted were vehicles operated in cooler parts of China, which is similar to the prevalence of issues in North America, which happened at more northernly latitudes. Issues experienced were massively increasing oil level and engines randomly shutting off due to the amount of fuel in the oil, which was clearly a safety hazard.
 
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Well that is the problem you are driving it cold, which causes the cold air flow to keep the radiator cold. We had zero problems with 2018 Civic 1.5t defrosting the windows sitting in the driveway I'm the winter. If it was closer to 0°f it may take a few more minutes beyond five but if it was in the teens it warms up in about 5min. I am not saying it is up to full operating temp at 180°, but it has heat and windows are defrosted. Same for my old Chevy too, I hop in it and drive and I freeze bc it won't warm up. I let it idle in the driveway for 5ish minutes and it gets warm.
DO NOT let it idle. You are diluting the oil more doing that. There is no reason to start it for 5 minutes to warm, as it is not heating up just idling. That is unnecessary with todays engines. Start it and drive it easy until up to temp. Also the thermostat is set to open at 172 degree Fahrenheit, therefor no coolant is moving in the radiation until 172 degrees as it remains in the block until that point.
 
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Well that is the problem you are driving it cold, which causes the cold air flow to keep the radiator cold. We had zero problems with 2018 Civic 1.5t defrosting the windows sitting in the driveway I'm the winter. If it was closer to 0°f it may take a few more minutes beyond five but if it was in the teens it warms up in about 5min. I am not saying it is up to full operating temp at 180°, but it has heat and windows are defrosted. Same for my old Chevy too, I hop in it and drive and I freeze bc it won't warm up. I let it idle in the driveway for 5ish minutes and it gets warm.
Honda uses electric heating elements that operates under certain parameters this is in majority of the newer Hondas.
 
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DO NOT let it idle. You are diluting the oil more doing that. There is no reason to start it for 5 minutes to warm, as it is not heating up just idling. That is unnecessary with todays engines. Start it and drive it easy until up to temp. Also the thermostat is set to open at 172 degree Fahrenheit, therefor no coolant is moving in the radiation until 172 degrees as it remains in the block until that point.


This works unless you have to clear and defrost the windows. Even with electric defrosters there is a few minutes involved.
 

wlk

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DO NOT let it idle. You are diluting the oil more doing that. There is no reason to start it for 5 minutes to warm, as it is not heating up just idling. That is unnecessary with todays engines. Start it and drive it easy until up to temp. Also the thermostat is set to open at 172 degree Fahrenheit, therefor no coolant is moving in the radiation until 172 degrees as it remains in the block until that point.
It does heat up by idling and there is definitely reasons to let it warm up in the winter. Esp when you have frost and ice covering the vehicle which is a common occurrence. You do not want to drive w a 5" hole of ice cleared off the windshield as you don't want to be this guy
Screenshot_20221028-233557_kindlephoto-136945417.jpg
 
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Anyone can tell you to run a 30 weight oil, but they aren't going to pay your repair bills when Honda denies your warranty claim.
How is Honda going to find out? I never heard of them asking for a UOA if an engine blows and a UOA won’t spill the beans on who/what of the oil. They care if the maintenance was done with records.
 

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They are right though, the viscosity itself does not impact fuel dilution; does not prevent it from happening. All it does is increase the buffer; buy you more time before dilution brings the viscosity down to an unsafe level.

On the other hand, the additive package can be crafted to be more effective in the presence of fuel and low viscosity; can be improved to be more robust and provide more protection under mixed and boundary regimes. Of course that same chemistry can be applied broadly and result in more effective lubricants overall, follow?
Thank You. :)
 

wlk

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Go back to page 6 and read the comments please then come back.
I am not arguing w you what I know to be true with the car we had. It warmed up in the cold when idling. The guage would be roughly between 1/2 to 2/3 between cold to operating temp when idling in the driveway. It was known to fuel dilute, I did 5k oci, check the oil level regularly had no troubles with rising oil levels as it was not short tripped. You cannot just drive it in the winter unless it is garaged kept which a lot of the vehicles don't have and neither did we at the time. So you let it warm up and melt the outside. You can go reread all you want, sorry you can't go beyond this.
 
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What is the collective wisdom on the best mainstream 0w20 to use in a Honda 1.5 TGDI engine (2021 Honda CRV) to resist fuel dilution that is also good for use in 2 other Honda J35Z V6s that take 0w20?

Which one has the most fuel dilution resistant formula with the new/changed/recent formulas? I thought it was M1 EP, but am wondering about their recent formula change.

I follow the maintenance minder OCIs, generally 6k or 7k miles. The CRV sees some short twice a week urban trips and then longer highway drives. The V6s see highway commutes.

Eyes on Mobil 1 EP, Pennzoil Platinum full synth, or Valvoline EP synthetic, or another mainstream available at Walmart, Amazon, etc.

I would love to settle on a single best oil to stock that served all my 0w20 Hondas. I have an older Honda V6 that gets M1 High Mileage.

Curious on the collective wisdom. Thanks.

MalibuRam65

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Eneos 0w20 is all you need
 
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I am not arguing w you what I know to be true with the car we had. It warmed up in the cold when idling. The guage would be roughly between 1/2 to 2/3 between cold to operating temp when idling in the driveway. It was known to fuel dilute, I did 5k oci, check the oil level regularly had no troubles with rising oil levels as it was not short tripped. You cannot just drive it in the winter unless it is garaged kept which a lot of the vehicles don't have and neither did we at the time. So you let it warm up and melt the outside. You can go reread all you want, sorry you can't go beyond this.
You must have a very special engine. Even in 100 degree weather it don’t come up to temp that quick. It’s the nature of this specific engine as it’s so efficient it can’t hold heat.
 
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What is the collective wisdom on the best mainstream 0w20 to use in a Honda 1.5 TGDI engine (2021 Honda CRV) to resist fuel dilution that is also good for use in 2 other Honda J35Z V6s that take 0w20?
Any Dexos Gen 2 or 3 5W-30 oil. Or Quaker State Euro / Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40. If you're having fuel dilution issues, the last things you want are oils that start with 0W and oils that have high calcium-only detergent packages (a la Mobil 1 FS 0W-40).
 
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I strongly suggest 5w-30. My two Hondas spec 0w-20. I switched the 2012 Fit to Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 and like it much better especially at higher rpms. My 2021 Pilot just passed 10,000 miles and I'm not happy that everytime I get back from a 500 mile 90% highway trip, the dipstick barely has any oil on it (low) after I fill it perfectly with Mobil 0w-20 EP. It's getting the 5w-30 after winter when it's due for a change.
So, your '21 Pilot is burning oil? I'd be very concerned! What engine? Not a Honda guy so not really up on there newer engines. Only aware of the 1.5L TGDI in CRVs. I couldn't deal w/any vehicle that burned oil like that esp being so new. Is it common practice w/ those?😬😬
 
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