Have you considered the extra load on the alternator to run that light??
Preventing sludge/varnish with Honda J35A7 VCM enabled engines.
- Thread starter Bill7
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I'm able to get 27.5 MPG on the highway with van fully loaded with 8 people + heavy luggage.Have you considered the extra load on the alternator to run that light??
I'm happy with the VCM's MPG. Since my vans will be driven a lot in the upcoming years, was just asking if it's safe to go to a 5k/6month OCI with VCM enabled and not add any new sludge / varnish. Not sure if anyone has that answer, as most people own the newer generation of Odysseys.
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I just go from reading here and other forums. The VCM shutting the cylinders adds to the coking of the rings. Others have discussed that getting all 6 running consistently and some quicker oil changes cleared that up and prevented engine rebuild for rings. I have a 6 speed '19 Pilot and many discussion with the TC problems in them as the VCM adds to slip, killing fluid, and snow balling.
Hopefully you are lucky with no issues.
The M1 0W-40 is often cited as a good option as well as other Euro versions that stand up better to abuse for longer term.
Saving a couple $$ on the oil changes might cost you a lot of $$ on replacement of other parts or vehicle.
I would probably look at doing HPL EC30 to clean some per directions. Then decide on going to full HPL for the better cleaning abilities and maybe extending OCI. Maybe do the personal blending of mostly a better rated Euro oil and 1 qt of regular HPL, then increase HPL % in future.
You could discuss with HPL about better options with the concerns. Send them an email. Testing on the oil might give you results to show that you could go higher mileage. It's a trade off, more expensive, better oil used for longer maybe 2x as long. Less expensive, good rated oil, changed more frequently.
My 6cyl Honda Pilot is showing higher wear #'s and fuel dilution from all the short trips. That was with what I thought was OK oil. I have used either PP 0W-20 or M1 0W-20 AFE with LG Biotech since 1st oil change. Next change will probably be PP euro L 5W-30 from suggestions here. If those tests are not great it might be the M1 0W-40 or HPL if I decide to keep it. My VCM is now re-enabled also but I'm also using for work so much more longer drives. My trans fluid is crap and even dealer is concerned but with no drivability issues or CEL they can't change TC under warranty. My goal now is to drive it normal like it came from dealer and hopefully TC faults while under warranty.
Hopefully you are lucky with no issues.
The M1 0W-40 is often cited as a good option as well as other Euro versions that stand up better to abuse for longer term.
Saving a couple $$ on the oil changes might cost you a lot of $$ on replacement of other parts or vehicle.
I would probably look at doing HPL EC30 to clean some per directions. Then decide on going to full HPL for the better cleaning abilities and maybe extending OCI. Maybe do the personal blending of mostly a better rated Euro oil and 1 qt of regular HPL, then increase HPL % in future.
You could discuss with HPL about better options with the concerns. Send them an email. Testing on the oil might give you results to show that you could go higher mileage. It's a trade off, more expensive, better oil used for longer maybe 2x as long. Less expensive, good rated oil, changed more frequently.
My 6cyl Honda Pilot is showing higher wear #'s and fuel dilution from all the short trips. That was with what I thought was OK oil. I have used either PP 0W-20 or M1 0W-20 AFE with LG Biotech since 1st oil change. Next change will probably be PP euro L 5W-30 from suggestions here. If those tests are not great it might be the M1 0W-40 or HPL if I decide to keep it. My VCM is now re-enabled also but I'm also using for work so much more longer drives. My trans fluid is crap and even dealer is concerned but with no drivability issues or CEL they can't change TC under warranty. My goal now is to drive it normal like it came from dealer and hopefully TC faults while under warranty.
The problem that I know of with the Honda's and the VCM induced ring issues is that you won't know unless you have CEL's, oil burning or drivability issues UNLESS you tear down the motor which doesn't make sense for most people.
If you are at those mileages, don't burn any oil between changes and no other concerns, your current method is working at least fairly well. Change that and it might be 50-60k before you notice any issues like that or maybe never will.
I'll equate it to my Techron experience. I used it 2-3x per year, never noticed any improvements, thought I was maintaining clean. I used BG44k one time and noticed immediate improvement in power and mpg. Did my Techron method work? I was still getting good MPG with acceptable performance until I tried different.
HPL might (or might not) clear out what you don't know is there and not really causing any issues yet. It might give you better mpg from rings working correctly for slight power increase and reduced oil use.
If you are at those mileages, don't burn any oil between changes and no other concerns, your current method is working at least fairly well. Change that and it might be 50-60k before you notice any issues like that or maybe never will.
I'll equate it to my Techron experience. I used it 2-3x per year, never noticed any improvements, thought I was maintaining clean. I used BG44k one time and noticed immediate improvement in power and mpg. Did my Techron method work? I was still getting good MPG with acceptable performance until I tried different.
HPL might (or might not) clear out what you don't know is there and not really causing any issues yet. It might give you better mpg from rings working correctly for slight power increase and reduced oil use.
A good synthetic 0/5/10W-30 changed every six months.
Sensible advice Pablo. Thanks.
That advice would apply to 95% of all vehicles. It's the remaining 5% of engines that have design defects that allow certain parts of the engine to have extreme heat that could be an exception.
I could change every 4k miles / 6 months as I've been doing, but with 4 vehicles and the 4 vehicles going a combined annual miles of 52k miles, it is a lot of oil changes and cost, so that was my motivation to extend to 5k/6 months. So the purpose of this thread was with this particular Honda J35a7 V-6 engine with VCM enabled, if 5k OCI was safe without adding any new sludge/varnish over the next 100,000 miles on each vehicle.
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That's what I would be doing.
I don't see a topline true synthetic oil sludging at 5K and or six months even in that V6
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I was thinking about this before. What would be a way to check/test if there are issues starting to occur? Would a compression test on those cylinders start to reveal issues as compared to the others? You would need a reference point of factory spec and initial test. Unless you have the tools and knowledge that makes it more difficult or at least not economical. What would be the "I'm starting to have an issue" percentage or number that is different than the normal wear?
From reading threads that I recall on many vehicles, the coked up rings start to lead to oil burning. Would that also correlate to losing compression issues?
I fully understand why Bill7 is interested and how 25% more life could save some $$. Fleet maintenance is always adding up faster. The OLM in my '19 Pilot V6 with short trips was at about 7500 mile changes. Longer if highway use. I don't see 5k/6months being an issue with a good quality synthetic but it's not on Honda's dime anymore, they covered the warranty period. Only way to really know is testing somehow. I have done oil tests many times over the years and cost about the same as doing an oil change. I did them anyway just for my own knowledge and knowing I could longer if I wanted to.
From reading threads that I recall on many vehicles, the coked up rings start to lead to oil burning. Would that also correlate to losing compression issues?
I fully understand why Bill7 is interested and how 25% more life could save some $$. Fleet maintenance is always adding up faster. The OLM in my '19 Pilot V6 with short trips was at about 7500 mile changes. Longer if highway use. I don't see 5k/6months being an issue with a good quality synthetic but it's not on Honda's dime anymore, they covered the warranty period. Only way to really know is testing somehow. I have done oil tests many times over the years and cost about the same as doing an oil change. I did them anyway just for my own knowledge and knowing I could longer if I wanted to.
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Your TC will fault when you are 1 week and 5 miles past the warranty.
I also used LG Biotech from virtually the first oil change (got the car at 6k from a dealer loaner). I used LG Biotech, Ceratec and Castrol Edge 5w-30 (speced for Volvo) and none of this helped. Volvo still developed the dreaded stuck ring issue and oil burning at 75k/miles. Which made me wonder if LG Biotech and Ceratec claims are just Bull+$;"83 claims used to separate the naive drivers that love their cars from their money.
I also used LG Biotech from virtually the first oil change (got the car at 6k from a dealer loaner). I used LG Biotech, Ceratec and Castrol Edge 5w-30 (speced for Volvo) and none of this helped. Volvo still developed the dreaded stuck ring issue and oil burning at 75k/miles. Which made me wonder if LG Biotech and Ceratec claims are just Bull+$;"83 claims used to separate the naive drivers that love their cars from their money.
Ceretac is a friction reducer. Nothing more nothing less.
My opinion based on my experiences and expertise. I own 3 Hondas with the J35:
2006 Pilot AWD, does not have VCM, 266k miles, no issues, daily driver now for a second teen. No oil related issues, never fouled plugs.
2019 Pilot, 87k miles, VCM disabled at 36k miles, no issues at all.
2011 Odyssey, does have VCM (probably version 2.0 versus your 1.0), 220k miles, my daily driver after being handed down from my wife. I disabled VCM about 160k miles when I started noticing oil consumption and then started seeing some misfire counts when I checked with code scanner, I dont think they were bad enough yet to set the CEL. I disabled VCM and replaced the plugs in the rear bank. Oil consumption went away, really has no oil consumption even now. Replaced plugs again recently at 210k miles, looked good, but clearly more oil on the back bank plugs, so there was some ring wear on the VCM cylinders. Engine runs fine, some issues with 6 speed AT but I can live with it since its been paid for like 6 years.
So, opinions about oil based on those experiences:
They have all gotten Mobil 1 in the last 7 years since I started doing all of my own maintenance work. I have also used PP or Valvoline but rarely. Before that, they all got Kendall full synth from the shop I used.
I posted a oil test result recently on here and also some borescope pics. Pretty clean inside, no oil related issues at all.
I am going to stick with M1 EP HM or PP HM or Valvoline EP HM and not worry at all.
I would recommend disabling VCM based on my experiences with it and the thousands of other issues people had with early VCM.
You said you wanted to keep those Odys for longer, take care of the clear coat and rubber trim, that is the issues with mine.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Scotty for that insight.
Luckily for me, the VCM version 1 (years 2005-2007 which either runs on 6 or 3 cylinders) for the four Odyssey's I have hasn't resulted in any oil consumption.
These engines have a different set of issues than the VCM version 2 (years 2008+ which can run on 6, 4, or 3 cylinders and has the low tension piston rings).
So, my concern for the 2005-2007 VCM version 1 is the extreme heat on the front cylinder heads which fries the oil.
I would see a $500 cost savings over 5 years if I could go from 4k/6 month OCI to 5k/6 month OCI safely without any new sludge or varnish, so the reason I created this thread was for me to hopefully get an answer that 5k/6 month OCI are safe with no new sludge/varnish deposits expected in these 2005-2007 VCM engines.
For all three J35s, I have followed the Maintenance Minder oil change intervals for their entire lives. Maybe that is a helpful data point on OCIs. I posted some pictures from inside the valve cover of the 11 Ody recently. Here is a link:
Post in thread '2011 Honda Odyssey, 210k miles, 9800 mile UOA, Mobil1 High Mileage 0w20'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-mobil1-high-mileage-0w20.370403/post-6557202
Thanks Scotty for that additional info.
Were you using the recommended 20 weight oils or were you using 5W-30.
I moved to 5W-30 for everything as it might have less chance of forming varnish in high heat parts of the engine.
I have used the fill cap designated weights which is 5w20 for 06 and 0w20 for 11 and 19
Just rip off the bandage and shut off VCM. That 1-2 MPG desire is ridiculous if you're picking that over the life of the motor.
Yes, I've had that temptation. The green side of me (a combination of 2 greens: Save the green money + save the planet) both stop me from disabling the VCM. LOL
You're not saving money if you end up spending it on replacing the engine when the rings inevitably give out.
Bill- I got an '08 VCMII equipped engine with 108k. I do 5k oc, service that PCV valve frequently. Runs great, super smooth, strong runner and get 30+ mpg running high speed on interstates. No oil consumption, no varnish or sludge observed, or any mechanical issues so far. Just normal maintenance. I estimate about 75% highway miles, where VCM is heavily engaged
But for $95, just install a VCM disabler on your rig and stop worrying...
