Fram Ultra Oil Filter Failure Before 5,000 Miles

[Coprolite]

Martin, from the tone of the comments I interpreted your posts as bordering on vindictive/snide. If that was not the intent, I apologize for bringing it up and accusing you of the same. Perhaps it was the persistence and repeated posts that made me think of that, rather than posting them all at once. This just goes to show that there is a lot of room for misinterpretation, both unintentional and intentional on a forum such as this.

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Martin, I was using an informal definition of random, as in out of place.

I don't think they were out of place either. It's obvious that Motorking/Jay was protecting the spring-design and implying that coil-springs are the odd man out because only two companies use them. I was sure that he'd appreciate finding out what I did.

Originally Posted By: Motorking
not so sure there, only wix and one other company use coils springs, everyone else uses leaf springs, just sayin....

Since this whole thread is likely due to a spring failure I don't see how looking at spring design is out of place, but you do?


Speculating on why this failed and the potential failure rates is one thing. Going into the choice of springs on different filters is a bit beyond the scope, IMHO. The next thing we'll be discussing is where the bypass valve is located...

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Now Coprolite, whom on this board runs any (1) subject into the ground?

 

[Coprolite]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Now Coprolite, whom on this board runs any (1) subject into the ground?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Speculating on why this failed and the potential failure rates is one thing. Going into the choice of springs on different filters is a bit beyond the scope, IMHO.

The failure (based on the information we have) is a lack of clamping pressure on the filter-element. The first thing to suspect is the spring but this isn't the only possibility. All we know so far is that everything looks OK on the outside and that the filter-element seems to be loose and moving.

I did not bring up the differences in leaf/coil as I'd wait for more details before making any decisions. I'm not even speculating on the pro/con of either design. Motorking/Jay misinformed us that only two companies use a coil-spring and I thought that needed correction. He's also implying that leaf springs are better and that the competitors that use coil-springs are the odd-man-out.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: martinq

I did not bring up the differences in leaf/coil as I'd wait for more details before making any decisions. I'm not even speculating on the pro/con of either design. Motorking/Jay misinformed us that only two companies use a coil-spring and I thought that needed correction. He's also implying that leaf springs are better and that the competitors that use coil-springs are the odd-man-out.


Motorking said: "Denso, Mann also use leaf springs in other filter models.. I do not count offshore no brand filters when comparing apples to apples. I just recently cut open 30 brands of filters and 28 used leaf springs and two had coils. Our engineers say both designs have benefits and drawbacks but also say most filter makers and OE's prefer leaf springs."

When a person in Motorking's postion says or implies "better" he's not necessarily saying in terms of a single, solitary element in filter design. A manufacturer looks at it more globally, including filter design, manufacturing effort and expense, etc. As he said, some manufacturers use both designs in their lines of filters. I think it's safe to say based on what I know that MOST filter manufacturers use leaf springs in some or all of their filters. For Fram, the design lends itself to their fiber endcap filters, which is the vast majority of their production, and since they have the equipment to make it, they used that equipment to make the leaf springs for the Ultra. Simple. AFAIK, Fram doesn't use any coils in any of their filters, so they would have had to create a whole new assembly/manufacturing process to introduce them. Other manufacturers could have the reverse issue so continue to use coils. This isn't a "what's better" thing.

 

[KCJeep]

It seems highly likely that a leaf spring would "fail" to me, perhaps it somehow was installed upside down and got through?

Hopefully if Fram finds the filter defective they will be so forthcoming as to say why it was defective.

I had a buddy at work with a defective Champ labs filter, they owened up to it but they just said they verified it was defective, nothing more.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
..... I had a buddy at work with a defective Champ labs filter, they owened up to it but they just said they verified it was defective, nothing more.

So you're saying they didn't send him any replacement filter(s) as a matter of goodwill after confirming there was a defect? That being the case, imo that is a lousy way to do business and Champ would have lost mine. Not that it's really important but wondering if you are aware of the defect.

As for the current coil spring vs leaf spring discussion, though the vast majority of the filters I have used over the years are a leaf spring design, 'imo' a coil spring is the superior design. And, I'd also venture a guess that generally speaking they are more expensive to manufacture. Currently have some Napa Gold filters in my stash obtained on a 40% off sale. That said, I wouldn't let the retainer spring design be the determining factor in my filter purchases.

 

[martinq]

I'll just leave the Donaldson and Fleetguard here for safe-keeping.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I think it's safe to say based on what I know that MOST filter manufacturers use leaf springs in some or all of their filters.

That could be but I don't know that. All I knew is I had three filters in my small stash that used coil so I thought it strange that there were only two mfgs that used them.


Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
AFAIK, Fram doesn't use any coils in any of their filters, so they would have had to create a whole new assembly/manufacturing process to introduce them. Other manufacturers could have the reverse issue so continue to use coils. This isn't a "what's better" thing.

I fully understand that and don't think that one should be used over the other unless there is valid reason. Cost saving is valid but not at the expense of performance or reliability in my book.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: martinq
I'll just leave the Donaldson and Fleetguard here for safe-keeping.

After looking at the pics that Sesame Street song came into my head,"One of these things is not like the others........"

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
After looking at the pics that Sesame Street song came into my head ...

I don't doubt that for a minute.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
..... I had a buddy at work with a defective Champ labs filter, they owened up to it but they just said they verified it was defective, nothing more.

So you're saying they didn't send him any replacement filter(s) as a matter of goodwill after confirming there was a defect? That being the case, imo that is a lousy way to do business and Champ would have lost mine. Not that it's really important but wondering if you are aware of the defect.



No, not at all they did much better than that. They replaced his engine without so much as a hiccup or whimper of protest. But they just confirmed to him it was a "defective filter" before they did so, nothing more.

It was an ecore so I'm guessing it was a media blow out that led to engine failure but I did not get to see the filter.

That's all I initially mentioned because I am hoping Fram gives more details regarding the OP's filter, that's all.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
After looking at the pics that Sesame Street song came into my head ...

I don't doubt that for a minute.

How am I suppose to interpret that statement?

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
.....But they just confirmed to him it was a "defective filter" before they did so, nothing more....

By "nothing more" you meant they give no explanation of the specific defect causing the failure. Makes more sense to me now.

 

[KCJeep]

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: martinq
[
I fully understand that and don't think that one should be used over the other unless there is valid reason. Cost saving is valid but not at the expense of performance or reliability in my book.


We can all agree on that but with your seeming endless posting of pics and the need to make statements as above, you seem to be implying that one is better the other without much to go on. As far as can tell, you are doing that on the basis of this one failure (assuming it was the spring) and nothing else. Remember, I have seen a presumptive spring failure which, for the moment, cancels out your presumptive leaf spring failure ( : < )

Seriously, like I said above, this isn't a "one's better" thing.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Seriously, like I said above, this isn't a "one's better" thing.

I completely agree. I also think there are more than two mfgs using coils.

 

[Coprolite]

What set you off to go on a crusade like this?

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Coprolite
What set you off to go on a crusade like this?

It's not a crusade, it's just a correction. Like I said I knew I had three different filters in my stash that were made with coil-springs so I was pretty sure that what Motorking/Jay said was incorrect. I didn't want people thinking that since 'only two' companies make filters with coil-springs that there must be something wrong with them.

 

[KCJeep]

I think you missed his point entirely, he was implying that since so many companies used leaf springs it was clear most believe there is nothing wrong with leaf springs, not that there is something wrong with coil springs. Just my take on it.