Fram Ultra Oil Filter Failure Before 5,000 Miles

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

Jay, I have some Q?'s about oil filters and using them multiple times. What is the best way to contact you?

• 1) I thought you were going to let this go.
• 2) His e-mail and phone number are in his signature, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you could get hold of him either way.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

Jay, I have some Q?'s about oil filters and using them multiple times. What is the best way to contact you?

• 1) I thought you were going to let this go.
• 2) His e-mail and phone number are in his signature, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you could get hold of him either way.

1) I will, on this board, but I can ask him Q?'s, correct?
2) I saw that his signature had (2) ways to contact him; Let me re-phrase that, just for you; Jay, of the (2) contacts you have listed, which is the BEST way to contact you?
Better?

 

[Mullick2001]

Thank you for the reply. I knew that they probably weren't related. I was just fearing the worst case scenario that the filter failed immediately after the oil change and I ran for almost 5,000 miles without a filter and did some serious damage. The rough start is probably the plugs which I am picking up today. On the other hand I am still very upset that it failed the way it did. This filter has been used all winter and this winter we had more than a few days below -30°F. A dry start on a day when you oil is already thick is not a good thing. Also if it did fail in this way the unfiltered oil would wash over the media and pick up any contaminants and put them back in my engine. I have ordered the kit from Blackstone labs and am hoping the results are not too far out of the normal.

Also something I forgot to mention. The day of the oil change that was the only vehicle I had I already purchased a new Fram Ultra filter. Against my better judgement I had to put it on to get to work. I have been a Fram user for a while in my older cars and thought the Ultra would bring me back. I will be changing the oil at 5,000 again and switch back to Motorcraft until I see that this is not a common issue.

I just left a message with the Fram Product Evaluation team. I will update when I receive a response. I am thinking I might wait until I get the oil analysis back. If the results are good I will not waste my time sending it to fram only to receive another $9 filter. I would rather cut her open and share the results here. If the results are bad I will be sending it back and asking for more than just a filter.

 

[DuckRyder]

IMO, if you feel it is defective you should send it back, it is possible something went awry and they can take corrective action to save others the same experience. It is the good citizen thing to do.

Perhaps Jay would agree to post pictures here with your permission since the issue has already been aired here. (maybe not, but you could ask)

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
Thank you for the reply. I knew that they probably weren't related. I was just fearing the worst case scenario that the filter failed immediately after the oil change and I ran for almost 5,000 miles without a filter and did some serious damage. The rough start is probably the plugs which I am picking up today. On the other hand I am still very upset that it failed the way it did. This filter has been used all winter and this winter we had more than a few days below -30°F. A dry start on a day when you oil is already thick is not a good thing. Also if it did fail in this way the unfiltered oil would wash over the media and pick up any contaminants and put them back in my engine. I have ordered the kit from Blackstone labs and am hoping the results are not too far out of the normal.

Also something I forgot to mention. The day of the oil change that was the only vehicle I had I already purchased a new Fram Ultra filter. Against my better judgement I had to put it on to get to work. I have been a Fram user for a while in my older cars and thought the Ultra would bring me back. I will be changing the oil at 5,000 again and switch back to Motorcraft until I see that this is not a common issue.

I just left a message with the Fram Product Evaluation team. I will update when I receive a response. I am thinking I might wait until I get the oil analysis back. If the results are good I will not waste my time sending it to fram only to receive another $9 filter. I would rather cut her open and share the results here. If the results are bad I will be sending it back and asking for more than just a filter.

I do hope this is an isolated inncident. I was really looking forward to using the FRAM Ultra.
I do have a Q? about the bypass valve on the FU.
I have done A LOT of reading and research on the FU. Some critics out there say the bypass valve is a bad idea due to oil being washed over the filter media and debris going into the engine during bypass mode. In order for it to go into bypass mode, would the filter have to be extremely dirty, as in neglect to proper oil changes? I would think that it would have to be VERY dirty for this to happen. I ask this because those same critics think the bypass valve in the MC FL-400s, and similar filters, is a much better setup.

 

[Mullick2001]

You mean post pictures after they take it apart? I would love if they did that. I dont know if jay works where they would do the inspection but if he did it would be very much appreciated.

Here it is everyone I made a video from my camera I have uploaded it here. Don't mind my cat photo bombing.

http://youtu.be/NexBveNFZjg

It came out better than I had hoped you can clearly here what I have been describing.

 

[martinq]

[WALL OF TEXT]
[WALL OF TEXT]
[WALL OF TEXT]
[WALL OF TEXT]

... oh the horror!

OK, I'm still trying to will myself through the first post but if this filter did fail then it needs to be reported to Fram. They will definitely want to hear about this.

I've watched the video (thanks for that!) and that's definitely a design/component failure. I'd contact Fram with all the details. Sounds like the spring failed in some way.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I have been reading very good things about this filter and was going to use one on my next OCI. Well, after seeing this and UNTIL the end results I think I will hold off.

Yes, yes and yes.

 

[trx250x92]

I would not cut the filter open. Do send it to fram. If it is loose inside then it is defective. Idk if fram is the same or not but I contacted purolator about a defective filter that I cut open and they sent me an overnight box with a claim form and return materials with another next day air label.

 

[Sayjac]

Hey, thanks for the follow up youtube. Much as I thought based on your excellent written description. Again seems most likely retainer spring related. As for any correlation/causation to the vehicle related starting issues you also experienced, hard to say. You said the vehicle sat for two days, oil would have been at it's thickest and if adbv function compromised, might have contributed to a dry start related condition you suspect. I'll defer to others on that part.

You should follow Jay's previous instructions as Fram will want to put the Ultra on it's equipment to test the filter's function as it is now. As for them taking pics of a dissected filter after testing, I'm doubtful of that part. But having met the folks working at the Fram labs including Jay, feel confident they will get to bottom of it and do their best to keep you as a satisfied customer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Good Morning,
I am the tech manager at FRAM. Couple things, your hard start is not related to the oil filter, any drivability tech will tell you that. that said, if you are going to file a claim with us, DO NOT cut open the filter!
Please call our product evaluation group at 888-889-8374. they will instruct you how to make a claim. the filter will be evaluated and you will be given a full report as to what the issue is.

Jay, I have some Q?'s about oil filters and using them multiple times. What is the best way to contact you?

He's gonna tell you that if the filter is rated for 15K miles that you can use it for 15K miles, no matter how many OCIs are done over that 15K miles.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Falken
This is my best guess.

The leaf spring fatigued and tore. That is why I prefer coil springs.

When the leaf spring at the top of the can broke it was unable to exert downward pressure on the metal end cap of the filter element, thereby rendering the ADBV unable to seal the inlet holes anymore.

The filter element that is forced by the leaf spring sandwiches the ADBV between the bottom metal end cap and the inlet holes on the tapping plate.

This lack of leaf spring tension would allow the filter element to spin freely and move a bit in the can, and the ADBV allows the oil to drain back into the pan as it isn't "squeezed" anymore by leaf spring tension to seal the inlet holes.

So, for sure, this is how your dry start happened. Damage probably didn't occur.

Many people have disliked the leaf spring due to the surmised possibility that it could fatigue, as a sheet would form stress lines quicker than a coil.


+1 ... that's my thoughts too. Only wrinkle I'll throw in is did the OP notice anything wrong with the filter when new? Maybe the leaf spring is missing or in backwards which caused the guts to be loose from the get-go. Bottom line, the guts are loose, and the only thing that prevents that is the leaf spring in the dome of the filter.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
He's gonna tell you that if the filter is rated for 15K miles that you can use it for 15K miles, no matter how many OCIs are done over that 15K miles.

Heeeheeeheee

 

[Mullick2001]

I am still waiting on a call back from Fram, it's only been a few hours. I have decided I trust Fram enough to send it to them and for them to tell me what actually happened. Hopefully if it is a design flaw or defect on a certain number of filters it will help. I am going to be changing the plugs on the vehicle today and it's a pain in the a** to get to the back plugs on these engines so I'll probably update tomorrow.

I guess I don't remember checking the filter too much. I know I changed it at night so I just opened the box wet the seal and put it on.

I just prepaid for the oil analysis as well.

 

[KCJeep]

This is the first bad thing I've seen posted on the Ultra and we don't even have any results yet. The sky is not falling, just send it back to Fram like Jay said. Will be interesting to see the results no doubt. Glad it sounds like the vehicle is running fine now.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
I am the tech manager at FRAM. Couple things, your hard start is not related to the oil filter, any drivability tech will tell you that. that said, if you are going to file a claim with us, DO NOT cut open the filter!
Please call our product evaluation group at 888-889-8374. they will instruct you how to make a claim. the filter will be evaluated and you will be given a full report as to what the issue is.

+1 to this!

Originally Posted By: Falken
This is my best guess.

The leaf spring fatigued and tore. That is why I prefer coil springs.

When the leaf spring at the top of the can broke it was unable to exert downward pressure on the metal end cap of the filter element, thereby rendering the ADBV unable to seal the inlet holes anymore. The filter element that is forced by the leaf spring sandwiches the ADBV between the bottom metal end cap and the inlet holes on the tapping plate. This lack of leaf spring tension would allow the filter element to spin freely and move a bit in the can, and the ADBV allows the oil to drain back into the pan as it isn't "squeezed" anymore by leaf spring tension to seal the inlet holes.

And +1 to this too!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Mullick2001
I guess I don't remember checking the filter too much. I know I changed it at night so I just opened the box wet the seal and put it on.


My guess is it could have been that way from the factory. That's why I always really checkout the filters I buy before using. Look inside with a flashlight, shake it hard to see if there is any looseness, clean up any burrs on the threads, etc.

 

[Falken]

The leaf spring must have broken during use.

If the leaf spring was missing or broken out of the box, you would have had start up clatter from dry starts for a very long time, especially in the Winter.

Also, if the element was rattling around in the can, spinning it on you would have noticed. An oil filter has to be turned many, many times until it snugs up to the engine block. You would have felt the counter movement in your hands for sure, or even heard it moving in a quiet home garage.

Even when handling a dry filter that is rattling, even to lube the nitrile base seal, it would have caught your attention.

My guess is your Blackstone results will be fine. This is a recent failure.

An oil filter leaf spring is in constant flux as engine RPM changes from waiting at a light to accelerating.

That was a long time and a lot of compression/expansion cycles for a little sheet of spring steel.

This again cements the view that changing an oil filter every OCI or every 3-5k miles may be prudent. They don't only filter, they are mechanical devices that actually move when in use.

They have seals, pleats, springs and vary opening amount constanly based on oil pressure changes based on engine RPM. Best to not milk them as they are cheap and easy to change.

 

[Motorking]

Email is fine if you can wait or you are welcome to call my cell number 248-808-4551 anytime before 9pm est. Wife gets a little touchy after that.

 

[Motorking]

not so sure there, only wix and one other company use coils springs, everyone else uses leaf springs, just sayin....