Ford V10motor locked up

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Cathy, for my full diatribe on arbitration, re-read my earlier post (it was a long one ) that had the emboldened phone number. In a nutshell, binding arbitration through the BBB is available to resolve warranty disputes. It's FREE to the vehicle owner, and ALL manufacturers of new vehicles sold at retail in the U.S. are required to submit to its provisions. (That means everyone from Hyundai to Rolls Royce!) The arbitrator's judgment carries the force of law, though it's not administered through a court. Like a trial, the arbitration hearing requires both parties (or one or both parties' representative) be in attendance. If, for example, Ford was a no-show at your hypothetical arbitration hearing, then just like a trial, a summary judgment in your favor would be automatically entered in your behalf. In other words, while Ford has consistently ignored YOU, the company danged well won't ignore an arbitration hearing date. A finding in your favor is binding on Ford - they CANNOT appeal it. (In traditional civil court litigation, even if you win, Ford could tie things up for years on appeal - just for the cost of court filing fees.) As I stated in my earlier post, if, on the other hand, the arbitration hearing goes against you, you are NOT bound by the decisision - you're still free at that point to pursue civil litigation if you choose. Go cautious on the "lemon law" notion - it ain't what it seems. My worthless son-in-law just "won" a lemon law case on his two and a half year-old Ford Focus. (I have my own idea on the proper pronunciation of "focus"...) What this means is that Ford buys back his Focus at the original price minus the depreciation and wear & tear of two years operation. Translation? The bozo gets "low book". The idiot could've done that well on his own. (probably better had the moron just sold the piece of [expletive deleted - moderator] as soon as Ford started playing games with him six months after he bought it...)

Listen, Cathy, most of the people responding to your original post have done so in a sincere attempt to keep your best interest in mind. Some with more knowledge than others, and even though the advice has at times been contradictory. But, unfortunately, a few are just enjoying stirring the pot to watch your dilemma unfold. I understand by this time you don't know whether to comb your nose or scratch your hair. At least with arbitration you get the possibility of no-cost relief and with no one out to see what he can steal from you. If it doesn't pan out, you're only out some time, but still have your full legal options open to you. One other thing to keep in mind: once your vehicle was delivered to Landers, the warranty clock stopped ticking until you or Ford decide to fish or cut bait - another reason NOT to be too hasty to have your RV moved to an independent shop.
 
Cathy, along with an attorney, you may try 7 on your side, or 11 listens concerning this. But the attorney is a MUST and ASAP would be better. You may also want to call the Democrap-Gazzette and see if you can take out some kind of ad or something there. Either way, please keep us posted.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Amkeer:
Its obvious its not a Heavy Duty engine it blew up at 29,000 miles!
dunno.gif


Sorry for the confusion. I was just distancing it from the much "heavier-duty" engines in larger trucks that I would generally refer to as heavy-duty engines. I've usually used "medium-duty" to describe engines like this 6.8L, the Powerstroke 7.3L, the Cummins 5.9L, etc. I don't know that there's actually a definition for what is medium vs. heavy-duty though, or that I'm necessarily using it correctly if there is one.
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I did talk to the BBB about the arbitration yesterday and I am suppose to talk to them again today. I also contacted an attorney and sent him my documented account of my ordeal. Thanks so much for all of your help and encouragement. It is sometimes hard to stay strong. I just feel in my heart that I am being ripped off. I know that we didn't do everything right...but this is still just wrong. Thanks!
 
Cathy,

What your attorney knows and undoubtedly told you is that even though you neglected to change the oil, the burden is on Ford to show that your negligence caused the problem.

Ford has already presented your with their first view that your failure to follow the maintenance manual caused the problem and this is how they stall and delay in providing warranty coverage if they ever provide it at all. They are hoping that you'll be worn down by all the problems and eventually will cave. You need the vehicle and may have payments to make on an RV that doesn't run. Ford knows that delay benefits them.

The BBB is an excellent program and they know that not changing the oil isn't the entire answer. A great way to tell if it was the oil or the engine is the UOA but guess what? Ford took it and it's gone!

Even if you retained a metals expert he'd benefit from seeing a UOA and now that Ford has "spoiled" the evidence they have a tough time arguing that there is no evidence supporting warranty coverage when they've destroyed it. It's called failure to litigate with clean hands.

Let's assume for a moment that Ford is correct. If it is absolutely true that the oil must be changed at 5,000 miles does this mean that failures occurring at 5,001 miles are outside of coverage? I think they'd be hard pressed to make that argument with a straight face thus they will have to concede that there is a grey area. That's your opening.

Something else to keep in mind is that limited portions of the bearing surfaces failed and not all bearings were shot. If the oil was the culprit why wouldn't we see failures/damage on all bearing surfaces? Instead it is limited to only a couple of surfaces.

It's the UOA and their failure to preserve evidence. They got rid of the ****ing evidence and it wouldn't surprise me if they gave you the oil from the bottom of the pan and not a fair sampling.

Be tough.
 
Flashlightboy brought up a good point about metallurgy.

I work with a metallurgy lab here in the Midwest and if comes to that, we can have the bearings analyzed for cost.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Cathy,

What your attorney knows and undoubtedly told you is that even though you neglected to change the oil, the burden is on Ford to show that your negligence caused the problem.


Something else to keep in mind is that limited portions of the bearing surfaces failed and not all bearings were shot. If the oil was the culprit why wouldn't we see failures/damage on all bearing surfaces? Instead it is limited to only a couple of surfaces.


The fact that it's Fords burden to prove negligence is in her favor, but not a slam dunk by any means. Just like being innocent in a criminal case doesn't mean you are going to be aquited, even though the burden of proof is on the state.

.....

Bearings don't normally all fail at the same time or rate. It's common to have some totaly trashed bearings in an engine with some bearings that stil look good. The bearings see different loads, different temperatures, have different clearances and get different amounts of oil.
 
I called my RV dealer and Four Winds again yesterday. After explaining that I knew that they were the "good guys" in this, but if I filed a lawsuit I would have to name them, they were much more willing to help. Tom Overton of Four Winds has made a call to Ford and I should hear something back from him today. I did contact a lawyer also. He wants to start by sending a letter, giving them 10 days to fix my motor. then we will go from there. Recieved a letter back from the Consumer Protection Agency. Stating that it seemed that Landers Ford was unwilling to settle this dispute in a way that would be pleasing to me and then they gave me some suggetions for lawyers. Oh, thanks for the help! I mean...that's it????? Well, at least I was a step ahead of them! I will do some more work today and update you! thanks again for all your suggetions and support!
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
[QBI work with a metallurgy lab here in the Midwest and if comes to that, we can have the bearings analyzed for cost. [/QB]

It looks like you and I are in the same business.... perhaps competitors?
 
Just got off the phone with the BBB. They had a 3 way telephone conversation with Landers Ford and Ford MoCo. Landers states that my problem is not with them, but with Ford. Ford says that is it up to me to pursue this either by arbitration or a lawsuit. Passing the buck...more stalling...I keep fighting!
 
Posted by Kestas:


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quote:

It looks like you and I are in the same business.... perhaps competitors?

No, I am not a metallurgist, just a lowly Physical Chemistry Physicist and Tribologist.

Arrow Labs has done metallurgical failure analysis for me in the past on failed components.

For example, I had a situation in which a differential component company was blaming the lubricant manufacturer for parts failures and the lubricant manufacturer was blaming the metallurgy of the components (because some components were made in Japan). I had every bearing, race, and gear examined for heat treatment, hardness, alloy content, etc. With the Lab's help, we found it was the gear lubricant that was at fault, and not the metallic parts.

I am glad to see other's on this board with your background in engineering and failure analysis.

Maybe we can help people like Cathy.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
It looks like she has no other choice at this point.

Really? Apparently you conveniently overlooked my previous posts. (I guess they only display on my and Cathy's monitors...)

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
...To prove what?...

To prove that 7,000 miles in an RV towing a trailer loaded with several motorcycles and their support equipment without the factory specified interim oil and filter change weren't material in her engine's failure. Even if Cathy prevails, Ford can legally tie up the award with appeals for more years than Cathy and her husband probably intended to keep the RV, anyway. (As an example, OJ lost the wrongfull death civil case brought by the Brown and Goldman families, but he has yet to pay one red cent of the twelve million dollar award - and that was about seven years ago.

[ July 29, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
I don't know much about true "legalese" ..but debate is another topic. Typically one or the other oponents finds a chink in the other's armor and exploits it to no end.

The interval lapse is the ONLY element that Ford has to stand on ..and this will still have to be supported by proof that this caused the failure. It is merely a "suggested" cause. The relationship has yet to be proven. Now granted ...this IS a failure to CYA on Cathy's part. I don't believe, however, that I'd throw in the towel and put my rear end up in the air on this matter before going down swinging.

That is, JUST because you didn't CYA ...in no way grants legitimate right for someone to shove something in it. They "assumed" the actions (or inaction in this case) simply because an open ofifice allowed them access to a relief from their obligation while offering no concrete proof it was the cause.


Problem at work: We had troubles today with the "system".

Oh really?

Yes, the thing wouldn't do xxxyyyzzz

Oh yeah ..I ran into that.

What did you do?

Oh, I tried this and that.

AH-HA!!! That's it! You're the one who screwed this whole thing up!!!
 
Ray,

Your wrong! The burden of proof is with Ford! Ford is essentially denying a warranty claim. They have to prove why they are not honoring their warranty. They have to act in good faith. If they have a substantial reason for not honoring their written warranty I have yet to see it written in this posting.

This is not a high dollar case. There will be no huge legal teams. Ford its putting up a screen hoping Cathy will go away.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
It looks like she has no other choice at this point.

Really? Apparently you conveniently overlooked my previous posts. (I guess they only display on my and Cathy's monitors...)

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
...To prove what?...

To prove that 7,000 miles in an RV towing a trailer loaded with several motorcycles and their support equipment without the factory specified interim oil and filter change weren't material in her engine's failure. Even if Cathy prevails, Ford can legally tie up the award with appeals for more years than Cathy and her husband probably intended to keep the RV, anyway. (As an example, OJ lost the wrongfull death civil case brought by the Brown and Goldman families, but he has yet to pay one red cent of the twelve million dollar award - and that was about seven years ago.


Ray H. you fail to recogonize one salient point, if she quits now, she loses by default. If there had not been so much covering up by the dealer and ford, I would have argued for her to take her medicine and lay off, but this seems to be a problem shared by other ford engines in this service when using 20wt oil.

She bought an engine with warranty, she followed all rules except for the interval thing, however, the burden of proof is on ford to prove her actions caused the problem--kinda hard to prove with other documentable failures of the same type, wouldnt you say.

Dan
 
Boy, I am glad to see all of ya'll on the board today! I have another question....I just read on one of the RV sites about people with Rvs and V10 engines having trouble with awater getting in the engine when it rained. Our Rv made a very shrill wistling noise everytime we were traveling and it was raining. Memorial weekend in AR was when numerous tornados touched down. We were appaprently on the edge of one because we had just come through a horrible storm. At one point we had to wait while they removed a tree from the road. So...what do you think? Could this have contributed to my problem????
 
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