Premium Guard 10575 - potential issue

Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
277
Location
USA - WA
I installed this filter we got from Rockauto on my neighbors 2013 Ford flex with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Ever since installing (1200 ish miles) the car has been setting a low oil pressure light at idle but very intermittently for no rhime or reason and we even replaced the oil pressure switch, it didn't fix it.. I used M1 Euro 0W40 which I don't think had anything to do with the issue, but we changed the oil again today with M1 extended performance HM 5W30 and a Motorcaft FL500S filter and immediately the engine sounded smoother and quieter than it ever had before. He went out and ran it hard and said it ran smoother and quieter and so far no more intermittent oil pressure light at idle. Not sure if there is something wrong with the filter or not as it looks pretty good to me but there was an immediate obvious change in engine sound with the new oil and filter.
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I would personally have just changed the filter to the MC to see what the issue was-the Premium Guard is a fairly low efficiency filter, maybe there was a bypass valve issue?
I would have done the same, but my neighbor wanted to try the correct viscosity as well. His money, not mine. The oil I drained out was really nasty dirty with a lot of carbon in the bottom of the pan though, so I guess no big deal. The engine got a bit of a clean out. The bypass valve is my hunch as well. I have another one of these, not sure if I'm going to use it on something or not after this experience.
 
The filter looks just fine. Was the filter screwed snug? w/o running another PG we'll never be able rule out the PG as the ultimate culprit.
 
I installed this filter we got from Rockauto on my neighbors 2013 Ford flex with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Ever since installing (1200 ish miles) the car has been setting a low oil pressure light at idle but very intermittently for no rhime or reason and we even replaced the oil pressure switch, it didn't fix it.. I used M1 Euro 0W40 which I don't think had anything to do with the issue
So was this low pressure light at hot idle also seen the same day the oil and filter was changed 1200 miles ago (or just a few days later), but the guy who owns it started bringing it up 1200 miles later? Not sure on the timing of all this. Did the oil smell of gasoline? Maybe it got fuel diluted and decrease the viscosity enough to cause low oil pressure at idle.

It's really hard for me to believe any oil filter with that low of miles on it would be so restrictive that it's making a PD oil pump go into pressure relief at idle, and causing enough reduction in oil flow to cause a low oil pressure condition. The oil flow is so low at idle (even with a very healthy pump), that the dP across any filter (unless it's totally clogged) is very low, like just a few PSI - and that will no way cause any pump to hit pressure relief. A PD pump will not lose output volume vs engine RPM unless the pump is in pressure relief, or the pump is unhealthy (ie, excessive oil slippage) due to wear. That's what it would take to make a low oil pressure light to come on at idle. How many miles are on this engine?

Should have just swapped out the filter only to see that effect. Never change two or more variables at a time when trying to trouble-shoot the root cause of something.
 
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The new oil and filter may have improved things just enough for the light not to trip. I'd do a proper oil pressure test.
 
So was this low pressure light at hot idle also seen the same day the oil and filter was changed 1200 miles ago (or just a few days later), but the guy who owns it started bringing it up 1200 miles later? Not sure on the timing of all this. Did the oil smell of gasoline? Maybe it got fuel diluted and decrease the viscosity enough to cause low oil pressure at idle.

It's really hard for me to believe any oil filter with that low of miles on it would be so restrictive that it's making a PD oil pump go into pressure relief at idle, and causing enough reduction in oil flow to cause a low oil pressure condition. The oil flow is so low at idle (even with a very healthy pump), that the dP across any filter (unless it's totally clogged) is very low, like just a few PSI - and that will no way cause any pump to hit pressure relief. A PD pump will not lose output volume vs engine RPM unless the pump is in pressure relief, or the pump is unhealthy (ie, excessive oil slippage) due to wear. That's what it would take to make a low oil pressure light to come on at idle. How many miles are on this engine?

Should have just swapped out the filter only to see that effect. Never change two or more variables at a time when trying to trouble-shoot the root cause of something.
No it started doing it about a week into the oil change and intermittently. I've driven the car while it was doing it, we figured it was the sensor going bad since it was so random when it would do it, sometimes it would go a few days without doing it. It also sometimes would do it before the engine and oil was even up to temperature, sometimes only after hot, sometimes not at all. The oil smelled fine both times I changed it and the level never changed either. The engine has 177,000 miles on it. Even when the low oil pressure warning came on, I could see a good amount of oil flow through the oil filler cap. We will see what happens.

I do find it extremely odd how much smoother and quieter the engine sounds after putting the OEM filter and 5W30 in it. It does not even sound like the same engine at all and it sounded pretty good before.
 
The filter looks just fine. Was the filter screwed snug? w/o running another PG we'll never be able rule out the PG as the ultimate culprit.
Yeah, filter was on there about as tight as I could get it with one hand. Just like all the others I've installed over the years without any issues. Not sure if its worth potentially ruining an engine to see if the oil filter was really the problem or not if the problem never comes back with the current combination installed. I too was very surprised how nice it looked. Only thing I can think of is some sort of bypass issue or that engine is really fussy with its oil filters for some reason.
 
No it started doing it about a week into the oil change and intermittently. I've driven the car while it was doing it, we figured it was the sensor going bad since it was so random when it would do it, sometimes it would go a few days without doing it. It also sometimes would do it before the engine and oil was even up to temperature, sometimes only after hot, sometimes not at all. The oil smelled fine both times I changed it and the level never changed either. The engine has 177,000 miles on it. Even when the low oil pressure warning came on, I could see a good amount of oil flow through the oil filler cap. We will see what happens.

I do find it extremely odd how much smoother and quieter the engine sounds after putting the OEM filter and 5W30 in it. It does not even sound like the same engine at all and it sounded pretty good before.
Sounds like the the symptoms were way too random to be caused by the oil filter, especially if it it comes and goes days apart. If it was the filter, it would have started on day one and stay constant, not a week into the oil change and come and go intermittently. I say that because if it started a week after the oil change and wasn't intermittent, and you saw something not right with the filter after you cut it open, then one could say it was a failure of the filter verified with a cut-open and a discovery of something off base. But it looks good with zero signs of a failure.

And it couldn't be the filter's bypass valve, because as I mentioned earlier the oil flow volume and dP across an oil filter at idle is low. Idle pump flow rate is probably no more than 2 GPM, and at that flow rate with hot oil the dP across the filter is real low, like less than 3 PSI. There is no way the oil pump could even get close to hitting pressure relief under those conditions.

How do you know it's not an intermittent in the oil pressure sensor circuit? Doesn't necessarily have to be the sensor itself. Did you run any diagnostics to look for trouble-codes?

My guess is with that many miles on the engine, there is something starting to happen with the oil pump. Do you know if this engine has a variable volume oil pump on it? If so, could be the control system is whacking out intermittently. As @twX said above, a proper oil pressure test with a mechanical pressure gauge connected to the main oil gallery would tell you if the oil pressure sensor system was right or wrong. But again, if it's an intermittent thing going on, then it makes it another level of difficulty tracking it down.
 
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The filter looks just fine. Was the filter screwed snug?
Yeah, filter was on there about as tight as I could get it with one hand.
How tight the filter is on the engine has no bearing on the functionality of the oil filter. It either leaks from the base gasket, or not, based on how tight the filter is screwed onto the filter mount.
 
I installed this filter we got from Rockauto on my neighbors 2013 Ford flex with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Ever since installing (1200 ish miles) the car has been setting a low oil pressure light at idle but very intermittently for no rhime or reason and we even replaced the oil pressure switch, it didn't fix it.. I used M1 Euro 0W40 which I don't think had anything to do with the issue, but we changed the oil again today with M1 extended performance HM 5W30 and a Motorcaft FL500S filter and immediately the engine sounded smoother and quieter than it ever had before. He went out and ran it hard and said it ran smoother and quieter and so far no more intermittent oil pressure light at idle. Not sure if there is something wrong with the filter or not as it looks pretty good to me but there was an immediate obvious change in engine sound with the new oil and filter. View attachment 204290View attachment 204291View attachment 204292View attachment 204293View attachment 204294View attachment 204295View attachment 204296View attachment 204297
You should cut the media out and spread the pleats apart.
 
I should have taken a picture of the bottom of the drain pan. It was way dirtier than the first oil change that had apparently been in there for about 2 years and 2500 miles.
How clean does this engine look when peering down into the oil fill cap with a strong flashlight?
 
Extremely clean looking into the oil fill. Bright and shiny metal everywhere. No sludge or varnish that I can see anyways.
So I can't see how the filter could have gotten loaded up enough to increase the dP across it at idle at all from new when it only had 1200 miles on it. The pump would have to hit pressure relief at idle to cut oil flow volume to the engine enough to make the oil pressure lower where the oil pressure sensor is located. I'm assuming the oil pressure sensor is located after the filter, most are. So an unclogged filter isn't going to cause any issues intermittently.

If the oil pressure glitches out again with the new oil and filter, then it's obviously something else going on.
 
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