Ford V10motor locked up

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I think the burden of proof (I am not a lawyer, just a non-legal opinion), is upon Ford to prove the oil was unfit for continued lubrication service.

1. The comment by someone there in the service department who stated the oil "appeared" to be in good shape,
2. dumping of the majority of the oil,

sure makes me suspect.

(Of course, I am a suspicious looking guy anyway
grin.gif
).

Cathy, what was the appearance of the oil that you saw in terms of color, thickness, smell, etc?
 
One overshot on an oil change does not give the manufacturer the right to void a warranty! Lets be serious here! If these motors are that fragile then they shouldn't be in use!
 
Well,let's see...it was black, not overly thick like they had described. It didn't really smell burnt..but it just smelled like OIL! I never really smelled my oil before! HA! It was black, though...not really a brown color. If the 2 bearings burnt, isn't it suppose to be black? Like I said...I am new at this. I also had a mechanic tell me that it was odd that bearings 2 and 7 locked up because they were on opposite sides of the motor. What about that?
 
Not necessarily, because if the bearings suffered from oil starvation, the local bearing(s) that failed would show a blueing from heat or swiping (kinda like a smear), while the bulk oil would keep on doing it's thing.

And make sure you retrieve the faulty bearings as well. It's your motor and your property.

Someone local (third-party mechanic or ASE technician) really needs to take a close look at the engine, the bearings, the oil passageways, the oil pump, crankshaft, camshaft, etc., photograph the results, and make a forensic determination of cause of failure.

Did you get to see the bottom of the oil pan and its condition?
 
A couple of posts I pulled up from this site:

http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/14062806.cfm


I don't know if you are aware of the fact that Ford built lots of bad V10 engines in the early years. I bought a 2000 model which had an engine built in '99. At 21000 miles Ford replaced it under warranty due to excessive oil consumption. The shop that performed the swap was an experimental Ford warranty center, pressed into service to handle the overload of engine swaps. I now have a 2002 engine and am very happy.
The problem with the early V10 engines seemed to be egg shaped cylinder walls and bad valve train assemblies.

Another Post:

We had basically the same thing happen to us. The 1997 Shasta with Ford V10 engine got antifreeze in the oil. We had an extended warranty that did nothing to help us. The engine had 48,550 miles on it when it went. It sound fine while we had driven it. The fluids were always at the normal levels when we would check daily (this was a new "used" vehicle for us so checked more often). The guages were normal. when we returned we started the engine the engine made a terrible sound and the rod bent & the #1 cylinder scored. The engine had to be replaced. I've read about this in some other forums besides the problem with "spark plugs blowing".
 
Well, guys, the manufacturer can, indeed, deny a warranty claim on the basis of one overshoot - especially if not doing so will cost him a $10,000 motor. Warranties are not a law that something must be done by the manufacterer in all contingencies. They're a contract provided at the discretion of the manufacturer (as a marketing tool, not a legal obligation) between manufacturer and owner that free service to provide repair parts and labor or entire assemblies and labor will be provided if evidence of specific maintenance obligations performed in a timely manner is presented at the time a warranty claim is presented. Break the provisions for a given part or assembly and the warranty on that part or assembly is null and void. It's that simple. The owner of this vehicle failed in several areas that Ford will pounce on if the owner files for legal remediation:

1> Failing to change or have changed the motor oil and oil filter during the prescribed time/mileage limitations. (Unfortunately, personal emergencies don't constitute a free pass.)

2> Not pulling her own sample of the crankcase oil for analysis before leaving the dealership after the vehicle was delivered. (Hindsight being 20/20...) The dealer was under no obligation to set aside a sample or even leave the old oil in the engine sump. Too bad - you missed a real opportunity here, Cathy.

3> Black oil is not a good sign in a gasoline engine, especially at just 7,000 miles since the previous oil change. While not proof of abuse, Ford's attorneys would focus on the issue at trial. A slick presentation by a good defense attorney and Ford's expert witnesses and a jury made up of non-experts would probably play into Ford's hands. (Ford's got nothing to lose by being taken to court - their lawyers are already on retainer, so Ford may as well get their money's worth from their hired guns.)

If it's on your nickel, Cathy, this is gonna be a hard case for you to win. Your own expert witness's fees (and Ford'll have more than one) could more than offset what repairing or replacing your engine will cost, and that's still not taking into consideration court filing fees and your own counsel's legal fees. Before I'd consider legal action, I'd go through the BBB's arbitration procedure. All manufacturers of cars sold in the U.S. are parties to arbitration and foot the bills. It's always free to the consumer and if the arbitrator finds in your favor, it's binding, meaning neither the dealer nor Ford can appeal the decision. The arbitrator will set a time limit by which the manufacturer (Ford) or his agent (the dealer) must complete the repairs, and will contact you two weeks after that date to verify that the work was completed. If a reasonable explanation for delays is not provided, the arbitrator can assess fines in your behalf. It may not be an all-or-nothing decision, either - the arbitrator may assess percentages to be paid by Ford and you where there's no clear-cut way of determining fault. If, however, you reject the arbitrator's decision, you are still free to pursue other remedies at your expense including litigation. Your warranty booklet details the procedures, but if you lost it, call: 1-800-633-5151 to have a Customer Claim Form mailed to you.
 
An Aussie point of view on this one. 7,000 mile OCI is 11,265kms somewhat under the usual 12,500 to 15,000kms OCI here and nearly all using dino. But, and it's a big but (no pun intended) there are no 5W20's in the engines. There probably are some of these V10's here as there a lot of imported US truck type vehicles but they would have to run 5/10W30 atleast. Faulty manufacture or the oil, or something else, who knows?
 
The vehicle came with a Warranty when it was purchased. The owner did regular oil changes and the internal components were free of visible sludge. The engine failed to perform as promised even though the maintenance was performed.

If you give a warranty you can't take it away unless abuse is proven. If the manufacturer can not prove that abuse has occured then they are obligated to repair or replace under the terms of the warranty agreement. If they refuse to honor the warranty agreement then they are acting against the LAW! This is considered a Breach Of Warranty. Therefore they can be charged cost of repair or replacement, cost of legal fees, plus damages and penalties for a Breach of Warranty Claim. A $10,000 engine could cost the manufacturer considerable more.

Mola has it right on the money about the Certified Technician examining the motor.

Cathy you should have gotten that oil analysis back, right?
 
The oil analysis is not back yet. As soon as it comes back, I will definately let you know. You have all been so helpful! I am still on this Magnunson-Moss warranty act that says that my warranty cannot be denied unless they PROVE negligence. They have not done a failure analysis or an oil analysis...except, as Brandon the service guy says...visually. He says a visual analysis is all he needs.
 
Obviously, it would be better if you didn't have to get into a legal battle over this, but since it looks as if you'll have to if you want to be covered, consider this: Ford has really set them selves up to look bad in front of judge/jury. They FIRST decided what had happened, and THEN they set out to find the facts to prove it. Very sloppy. A half-decent attorney can sleep-walk through cutting them to pieces with this. How did they know you neglected your vehicle BEFORE they had the facts? Sounds as if they've started with the conclusion they want and are planning to "backfill" to support it if you challenge them. Keep the steady pressure on them; once intelligent legal counsel (on their side) gets a hold of this, I'm hopeful that their tune will change. Also, you should be thrilled that they're trying to support their position with "visual analysis." It's frustrating now, but if it's all they've got, they'll have trouble at a trial if this goes that far (and your UOA supports you, of course). Again, good luck.
 
I wouldn't keep my vehicle there to much longer. In that letter that you gave them the time limit will allow you to pull your vehicle from them if they don't agree to fix it. You will incur additional cost here, but you can't leave the vehicle there.

You should be already interviewing attorneys just in case.

Basically the Ford motor has rendered the vehicle unusable.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Amkeer:
...If you give a warranty you can't take it away unless abuse is proven...

Among the conditions that Ford designates as constituting "severe service", which requires 3,000 mile OCIs, are operation under high ambient temperatures as well as towing. Both conditions were involved. Going 7,000 miles on one charge of oil in that situation is arguably "abuse" by any standard. To a significant extent, Ford had their case handed to them on a silver platter with Cathy's free admission of the conditions under which that ill-fated trip was undertaken. Looking at this horror strictly from Ford's perspective (which is not tantamount to agreement with Ford's position), so far the company has absolutely no reason to sit up and beg Cathy to accept a new motor with the company's heartfelt apologies. It's still hardball time. Rest assured, Ford's own sharks are already apprised of the situation.

By the way, ekpolk, there's no such thing as a "sleep-walk" through any civil or criminal trial. Litigation should always be considered as purely a last resort. What happens in bringing in a verdict is determined to a large extent with what happens during discovery (what evidence is and is not admissable), in the judge's chambers out of earshot of the jury, and the instructions the judge issues the jury before it begins deliberations. I've been involved as an impanneled jury member eight times (seven of which a verdict was reached) in my adult life involving everything from a wrongful termination suit to a capital murder trial (in both a verdict was reached) and I can assure you, it's nothing like you see on TV.

[ July 23, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
Ray,

They would have to prove that a 7000 mile OCI would be fatal to this supposed, "heavy duty V10 motor"! Highly unlikely Ford would win this case unless there is more than what was explained here. It would be in Fords best interest to deal with this situation in a timely and professional fashion and replace the motor. They can still "act" like they are doing these people a favor by doing so.

Don't forget this case is more than likely a $10,000 claim or under at this point. Ford is not going to expend alot of resources on a claim such as this. They will push as far as they can to see if the consumer will walk. They will either settle in pre-trial mediation or right before the judge hears the case.

These manufacturers have the consumers pegged. They know that the majority will throw their hands up in disgust and pay for their flawed products even though they know the manufacturer is in the wrong. The consumers that get through their intial smokescreen and push it to the point prior to trial are finally rewarded for their efforts and get what they should have gotten in the beginning. The hardball approach is victory for the manufacturer and a loss for the consumer. Its a numbers game.

[ July 23, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Amkeer ]
 
Cathy,

Regardless of who may be in the "right" or not, I wish you the best of luck with this and hope you get it resolved in a timely manner...
 
quote:

Originally posted by seotaji:
why the really long oil change interval?

This is also what I'm wondering. Why would you do extended interval drains on conventional oil under severe service while still under warranty?
 
Sorry the engine grenaded, but you too blew it by freely admiting you did not maintain the engine in the manner required under warranty. Right there you lose the case...

While it sucks for you, Ford is also correct in requiring maintinance be performed on its scehdule to offer you any protection. They are not required to offer ANY warranty to you as a consumer.

Regardless of whether the OCI caused the engine to grenade, you didn't follow the terms of the warranty and thus Ford owes you nothing.
 
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