Ford CEO Says Large Electric Trucks And SUVs Have 'Unresolvable' Problems

[alarmguy]

Gm seems to have built the EV truck Ford couldn't - because Ford didnt take the time to do it from the ground up, Now is GM making money on it, not yet. Yeah Jim Farley- it's hard to do and make money on and physics cant be overcome.

Is it indisputable EV sales have "flopped" or is it just not growing as fast as it was?
I'm pretty sure the segment is still growing.

Toyota doenst need need to lead in Ev's to run a great business - but the question is who will?
Toyota has certainly ceded this particular crown - do they care probably not, do the readers here care who leads in Ev's probably not but someone will.

What Toyota rightfully should get laughed at over his their inability to meet their own battery roadmap claims and their initial effort in the space.

My only question would be (or statement) is what is Toyota doing wrong?
Im unsure of "inability" maybe they didnt believe in the EV marketplace which so far has proven to be true, since they are still the sales winner.
I dont know, I have no position other than the numbers. I find it hard to knock a company flexible and hugely successful navigating this anti-emission environment we were in. I wont be surprised that they will be there when a clear direction of the market is clear.

 

[alarmguy]

About a year ago, we stopped in to Putnam Lexus, where I have bought 4 cars; 3 new RX450h and 1 used GS350. I asked the sales manager about the be4 or whatever they call it. He told me, "You don't want one."
Toyota's EV business is basically a failure. I suspect they will fare better in the future.
Of course Toyota's overall history is legendary. I love Toyotas. Especially my trusty Tundra. No, it's not for sale.

Toyotas vehicle sales is an overwhelming success and that is what they are in business for, right? selling vehicles. Maybe they knew the public wasnt going to jump on board right away. I dont know, only the future will tell. So far they have been right.
The EV business has not lived up in anyway to the hype of years ago.

 

[Shel_B]

And sometimes an idea is just ahead of its time, and works at a later date in time.

An example of that might be the Porsche hybrid of 1898-1900. Or Victor Wouk's hybrid Buick Skylark, built in 1974, or Toyota's first hybrid built in 1976. I'm sure there were others. I vaguely recall another Japanese brand, also built in the 1970s. I know that there are more, including commercial vehicles from Mercedes.

 

[UncleDave]

My only question would be (or statement) is what is Toyota doing wrong?
Im unsure of "inability" maybe they didnt believe in the EV marketplace which so far has proven to be true, since they are still the sales winner.
I dont know, I have no position other than the numbers. I find it hard to knock a company flexible and hugely successful navigating this anti-emission environment we were in. I wont be surprised that they will be there when a clear direction of the market is clear.

If Toyota doesn't care about the BEV market segment then they aren't doing anything wrong.
This is a perfectly fine position for them to take.

If they do care their product doesn't show it, delivering worst in segment performance.

When you say your position is in the numbers - you aren't using the BEV segment numbers. The automotive market is a segment based business and thats how they measure themselves.

You are basically saying look how strong the company is everywhere else which is true - (never mind that man behind the curtain over there)

If they had the ability to meet their publicly announced roadmap (s) why didn't they ?

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree, My conversation with Jeff as far as Toyotas success got mixed into this. My point to him was no one can dispute Toyotas success in 2024 vs failures of strictly EV models.

I do have to say as a cynic that mislabeling by the media is prevalent. Toyota seems to carefully have chosen the words "electrified" which can be seen as accurate if they themselves report that as a division.

Perhaps Toyota should break out its EV division on their income statement? At least Ford does so, and GM publically states they are not EV profitable as yet.

IMO, Toyota makes the best hybrids. They have been at it for some time. The Prius was the #1 seller in CA for many years, and we are the biggest US market. I don't think I would consider anything else in the hybrid space.

 

[demarpaint]

Toyota got it right imo with their position on EV production, especially with the new US Administration. I think they played it right. I said this many times before here, Toyota didn't get to where they are being stupid.

 

[alarmguy]

If Toyota doesn't care about the BEV market segment then they aren't doing anything wrong.
This is a perfectly fine position for them to take.

If they do care their product doesn't show it, delivering worst in segment performance.

When you say your position is in the numbers - you aren't using the BEV segment numbers. The automotive market is a segment based business and thats how they measure themselves.

You are basically saying look how strong the company is everywhere else which is true - (never mind that man behind the curtain over there)

If they had the ability to meet their publicly announced roadmap (s) why didn't they ?

Sometimes we take different streets than our original map. I mean. Im not sure the point. Toyota has been unscathed by the lackluster BEV market. No one knows what they or anyone else is working on.

Who knows maybe as things iron out, technology advances, and the public decides that they want one, Toyota will be on top. Im not sure any BEV company met their publicly stated road map. Every legacy maker changed their map, GM multiple times, I think I just saw something that they are pulling out of a battery plant too. Tesla never had a road map they stuck to in recent memory. Never came out with a cheap Cyber Truck or its stated Cheap BEV car (maybe this year again) nor its self driving years back. Dumped 10s of billions into product development. SO now sure why we discount what Toyota does? Except acknowledge their success. Seems to be many people prefer "electrified" over Electric accord to the sales numbers I posted for 2024. Tesla only BEV didnt come close to that growth. They were negative.

This is not ill intended in anyway. But you and some others live in one state where EVs are popular basically forced on the population. There are 49 other states.

 

[alarmguy]

Perhaps Toyota should break out its EV division on their income statement? At least Ford does so, and GM publically states they are not EV profitable as yet.

IMO, Toyota makes the best hybrids. They have been at it for some time. The Prius was the #1 seller in CA for many years, and we are the biggest US market. I don't think I would consider anything else in the hybrid space.

As soon as Tesla reports United States sales numbers

and who is to say "Electrified" isnt one division ? Im not sure myself
One thing I am sure of, the industry is in its infancy. No one will know what 2032 will hold. (I wish I did!)

 

[UncleDave]

Sometimes we take different streets than our original map. I mean. Im not sure the point. They have been unscathed by the lackluster BEV market. Who knows maybe as things iron out, technology advances, and the public decides that they want one, Toyota will be on top. Im not sure any BEV company met their publicly stated road map. Every legacy maker changed their map, GM multiple times, I think I just saw something that they are pulling out of a battery plant too. Tesla never had a road map. Never came out with a cheap Cyber Truck or its stated Cheap BEV car (maybe this year again) nor its self driving years back.

This is not ill intended in anyway. But you and some others live in one state where EVs are popular basically forced on the population. There are 49 other states.

If by unscathed you mean ceding the entire segment then sure.

It's been entertaining watching the old guard move their goalposts from " just wait until you see what we can do" - to "I never wanted that segment anyway" when they failed to win it.

No one expected Tesla to keep to a roadmap, everyone expected Toyota to.

Cali never reached a point where anyone was forced to buy anything.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Toyota got it right imo with their on EV production, especially with the new US Administration. I think they played it right. I said this many times before here, Toyota didn't get to where they are being stupid.

But that doesn't explain why their EVs stack up so poorly as compared to their competition.
That's the part I don't get.

 

[alarmguy]

If by unscathed you mean ceding the entire segment then sure.

It's been entertaining watching the old guard move their goalposts from " just wait until you see what we can do" - to "I never wanted that segment anyway" when they failed to win it.

No one expected Tesla to keep to a roadmap, everyone expected Toyota to.

Cali never reached a point where anyone was forced to buy anything.

Well, gasoline costs are punitive for sure, but then again so are electric. Both highest in the nation. Though I suspect you might come out better with electric or hybrid

 

[demarpaint]

But that doesn't explain why their EVs stack up so poorly as compared to their competition.
That's the part I don't get.

I can't tell you how they stack up, I don't follow it. All I can say is IMO they played the EV right, and boy did they take heat here for it.

 

[UncleDave]

Well, gasoline costs are punitive for sure, but then again so are electric. Both highest in the nation. Though I suspect you might come out better with electric or hybrid

Cali gets you either way....

One used to be able to get out from under the man with Solar, but big brother blew up that exit route.

 

[UncleDave]

I can't tell you how they stack up, I don't follow it. All I can say is IMO they played the EV right, and boy did they take heat here for it.

They did take heat for it.

Most of us wanted to see Toyota do what they claimed they would - and put this smart aleck start up out of business.

Instead they just walked away and let him take it, and take it he did.

 

[demarpaint]

They did take heat for it.

Most of us wanted to see Toyota do what they claimed they would - and put this smart aleck start up out of business.

Instead they just walked away and let him take it, and take it he did.

I guess I'm odd man out, I wanted to see Toyota do exactly what they did. Maybe Elon will trash Tesla on his own, time will tell. Other than that I think he's doing a great job, and continues to gain my respect.

 

[UncleDave]

I guess I'm odd man out, I wanted to see Toyota do exactly what they did. Maybe Elon will trash Tesla on his own, time will tell. Other than that I think he's doing a great job, and continues to gain my respect.

You wanted to see Toyota fail to produce what they claimed they would?

 

[alarmguy]

I guess I'm odd man out, I wanted to see Toyota do exactly what they did. Maybe Elon will trash Tesla on his own, time will tell. Other than that I think he's doing a great job, and continues to gain my respect.

Also remember, the jury is still out of Tesla. NOT that I think they will turn into a nothing company. But they have a long way to go to prove themselves. They have only been profitable for a couple years and last year, they have almost stagnant world wide sales and declining profit margins. I dont know, I do not think I am being negative to call them out on this. They are a new young company, not exactly on solid footing.
Their stated "growth map" went in the toilet last 2 years. No where near 50% and steady decline to single digits for all of 2024 and a negative estimated number for the USA>

 

[demarpaint]

You wanted to see Toyota fail to produce what they claimed they would?

No I didn't want them to go hog wild with EVs.

 

[UncleDave]

Also remember, the jury is still out of Tesla. NOT that I think they will turn into a nothing company. But they have a long way to go to prove themselves. They have only been profitable for a couple years and last year, they have almost stagnant world wide sales and declining profit margins. I dont know, I do not think I am being negative to call them out on this. They are a new young company, not exactly on solid footing.
Their stated "growth map" went in the toilet last 2 years. No where near 50% and steady decline to single digits for all of 2024 and a negative estimated number for the USA>

They definitely have their challenges and are a young company.

The new model Y took to long, and they blew it with cyber.
Elons mouth cost him a significant chunk of his client base.

However - there is no other company that profitable in this segment, so declining profit is true, but its profitable (or was) where others in this segment are not.

Everyone else but Ford hides behind a blended number.

 

[UncleDave]

No I didn't want them to go hog wild with EVs.

Nor did I, but would have liked at least one competitive choice in the SUV and sedan space.